Being a parent is never easy. But in today’s complicated world, it can be even more difficult to navigate the challenges of parenting. From social media concerns to substance abuse issues, many parents feel as if they and their kids are walking in a minefield that feels like it is getting worse. And as a parent myself, I know how good it feels to have at least a few go-to strategies that can make the journey a bit easier.

In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Debbie Raphael, a double-board certified child, adolescent, and adult psychiatrist, who offers practical tips and tools for healthy parenting at every age.

Topics discussed include attachment style, validation, parenting, divorce, object relations theory, ruptures, repair, attunement, insecure attachment, secure attachment, parent-child relationship, anxiety, stress, climate change, political environment, social media use, doomscrolling, childcare, working parent, single parent, community support, support groups, self-help, self-care, modeling, psychotherapy, and psychiatry.

Please note that this episode may contain sensitive material; listener discretion is advised.

Emergency Assistance Note: If you or someone you know needs immediate support, please call your emergency services. In the US, 24/7 help is available by calling “911” or “988” (Suicide and Crisis Hotline). Support/informational links are in the show notes.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: No expert is offering medical or psychological direction or advice; the content is purely informational in nature. Please consult your physician or healthcare provider before undertaking any new regimen or procedure.

Books by Dr. Carla Manly:

Joy from Fear: https://www.amazon.com/Joy-Fear-Carla-Marie-Manly/dp/1641701218

Date Smart: https://www.amazon.com/Date-Smart-Transform-Relationships-Fearlessly/dp/1641704675

Aging Joyfully: https://www.amazon.com/Aging-Joyfully-Optimal-Relationships-Fulfillment/dp/1641701412

The Joy of Imperfect Love: https://www.amazon.com/Joy-Imperfect-Love-Creating-Relationships/dp/1641709057

Oracle decks by Dr. Carla Manly:

Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1757477615/imperfect-love-reflection-oracle-cards

Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Imperfect-Love-Reflection-Oracle-Cards/dp/B0D1Z5M4YK

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Create a Strong & Secure Parent-Child Connection at Every Age With Dr. Debbie Raphael

How to Create a Secure Bond with Your Child at Every Age!

Being a parent is never easy, but in today’s complicated world, it can be even more difficult to navigate the challenges of parenting. From social media use concerns to substance abuse issues, many parents feel as if they and their kids are walking in a minefield that feels like it’s getting worse. As a parent myself, I know how good it feels to have at least a few go-to strategies that can make the journey a little bit easier.

In this episode, I’m joined by a double Board-Certified Child, Adolescent, and Adult Psychiatrist who will offer us practical tips and tools for healthy parenting at every age. We’ll focus on this audience member’s real-life question. “My daughter is about to turn eleven and I’m terrified for her future. I’m worried about how to handle my anxiety about my laundry list of worries, such as climate change, our crazy political environment, bad education, social media use, and being a working mom. I’m recently divorced and my ex, my daughter’s dad, has left the state. Would you give me some tips to help me be a good mom and prepare me and my daughter for an uncertain future? I don’t have a lot of time and money, so therapy isn’t an option.” That concern as the focus of this episode.

I’m joined by a fabulous special guest, Dr. Debbie Raphael, a double Board-Certified Child, Adolescent, and Adult Psychiatrist who is also an author. Welcome to the show, Dr. Debbie. It’s such a joy to have you with us.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Yes, I’m so glad to be here.

Introducing Dr. Debbie Raphael

Thank you. You have so many credentials. You are such an amazing individual and physician and the world certainly needs very talented psychiatrists. Thank you for the work you do. Before we launch in to the topic of this episode, would you tell our readers just a little bit about what makes you, you?

Sure. Thank you so much for asking. Yeah, and that’s a great question. I think what makes me, me ultimately is my desire to connect. It’s been there from the beginning and little by little, what’s gone along with that is really the desire to teach and share and help with understanding. It’s been true, like I said, I think at every stage, at the beginning and then up until now.

When I was in middle school, I became a child advice columnist for our county newspaper. I just loved that role. I was looking back at it recently and I saw that I guess there was an interview at the beginning of when the column started and I was asked, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” I had said a writer and a child psychiatrist back when I was in middle school, at eleven years old.

It’s really stayed. I think a real foundation for that was my mom, as that is true for a lot of us. She was what we call my object. Fortunately, she did provide that support and unconditional love. That did become a part of me, which is what happens if that secure attachment takes place. It was really fortunate because I also was exposed to what we call adverse childhood experiences.

I had to learn along the way how to keep the self-trust and ability to connect the dots as I move forwar,d because I was exposed to that early childhood stress, chaos, and trauma in the home and in our lives. That also continued in my childhood. I was so fortunate then follow this trajectory of wanting to teach, wanting to help.

I started my psychiatry residency, ultimately. Part of the training in psychiatry, there’s a strong recommendation to be in your own therapy, and so I did, and I’ll never forget that my therapist said to me, “I am so surprised that you chose the husband you did with your upbringing because of the adverse childhood experiences.”

I really just came to understand how powerful it can be, again, to connect the dots for oneself, to try to be aware of cycles that can take place from the activation of that stress response. That awareness can be so powerful and it can really affect our future relationships of course. What next? I became a parent and that changes everything. I became a parent right when I started my child psychiatry fellowship. I mean the same month, July, and it was amazing.

It sounds like a lot, and of course it was, but at the same time, it was such a privilege because I had this baby at home, which I was doing for the first time as a parent. I had my patients and families and supervisors and teachers at work. I was able to really notice and reflect what was going on with me developmentally in this process and transition, what was going on with my baby and what was going on between us. I saw things play out during my training and my fellowship, which were so valuable and it helped in both directions.

What I did was I started to keep a journal and I was reconciling what I was seeing at work and what I was experiencing and seeing at home. It was so valuable to me that I said I will turn this into a book. I kept adding to it. The bulk of it was in those two years during my fellowship that I was keeping that journal, but I continued to add to it along the way. After fellowship, I started working for the county, became a lead child psychiatrist there and loved it. Foster kids of different kinds of situations that we encountered with children and adolescents and their families, and then my mother died.

I’m sorry.

Thank you. That was another transformative event. Ultimately, I decided I’m going to change where I’m working and work with patients across the lifespan in a group practice setting, so a different patient population group. I feel like I’ve had all these stages of growth, loss and things to go through. I feel like at this stage that desire to connect, it’s still so strong and the desire to share and support and teach with everything I’ve garnered along the way. That’s what I feel makes me, me. A long answer. It’s the path that I’ve followed.

It’s a wonderful answer and I appreciate it on so many levels. Before we get into today’s topic, because some of the questions not all of them I have for you actually will lead us toward answering that question, I believe, or she has a few questions in that singular concern, overarching concern. First off, how long ago did your mom pass? I’m sorry, I didn’t catch that.

It was 2016. She’d been struggling with autoimmune illnesses and it all culminated at that time, which obviously is a very big stress as a parent, as a person, as a daughter.

Understanding The Object Relations Theory

Absolutely. Especially because now I’m launching into a few of my questions. I’m aware when you say an object, I know what an object is and I know object relations theory, which is where that comes from and how important it is to internalize a healthy object. Could you explain to our readers who may not know about that concept, what we’re talking about?

Of course. It’s so important and there are so many different terms for this process. This is one of them, but when a new baby is interacting with one of its primary caregivers, that reciprocity between the two and that attention is so important and valuable. I know we hear about that, we talk about it. When you’re a new parent, sometimes, you don’t understand the importance of it because like the baby can’t smile yet, we can’t do anything. It’s just so important to still engage in this back and forth serve and return process with the baby so that the caregiver’s love is internalized, love support, unconditional positive regard, which we say in therapy.

All of that can get internalized over time with the baby. When a baby reaches a certain stage, the baby can actually develop what’s called object constancy, which means they can keep that love inside of them and almost the feeling of their caregivers still being with them even when they’re not, so that they can feel that sense of security as they move forward in the world.

That’s essentially what that means. It’s so important that it can feel like a lot of pressure on a parent. That’s why it’s also so important for parents to have their own support. If they are triggered by things from their childhood, to be aware of that and get support around it and to learn tools. That’s what I meant by the object.

What you were talking about essentially is the formation of secure attachment.

Exactly.

When we have that, then we know on the opposite end. This never means being a perfect parent. It’s not about perfection. It’s one of the reasons I love the idea of imperfect love. We can get it wrong and when we are a good enough parent, that is not my term. It was Winnicott who called it the good enough mother, initially.

It’s the idea that if you are present, if you can get that healthy attunement a good enough amount of times, kiddo will be okay. Don’t worry about perfection. Be simply concerned with whenever you’re able to show up and be present. Now ask you another question. It sounds as if your mom was a good enough parent, that despite whatever was happening in the greater picture, she was still able to tune into you.

It was good enough. That’s exactly right. That love, even though it’s not perfect what they can give, it’s strong enough so it’s there and then it gives you the strength to carry forward that person’s strength. That’s the gift, the important gift that just has to be good enough. You know when babies or little kids play with their parents and they’re playing peekaboo or they’re playing hide and seek, they want to be found, but they have a little period of time where they can’t see them. That’s training themselves. Okay, you’re not always going to be there, but you’re still going to be with me, that important piece of you.

Securing Attachment From Mother

It’s so beautiful how you explained how you then internalize that object and you have this internal healthy object, which is one of the reasons it makes so hard to lose a parent when you have that connection, because truly, a part of them is with you. It is within you. Another question, and this goes back to something.

Readers, I’m going down this road because it does, I believe, apply to the question of the day. I didn’t know as much about your past. It’s so interesting how there are pieces that are related. You were saying earlier that perhaps maybe your dad caused chaos in the relationship, thus your therapist, when you were going through your psychiatry program, said, “I’m so surprised. It sounds like your husband is a securely attached present individual.”

How did you luck out with getting that securely attached husband? My theory would be because you had the secure attachment from mom, even if there were other issues going on with your dad, you likely had such a strong sense of self and then later worked out whatever issues dad had created by doing whatever he was doing. Is that pretty much what you’ve come to realize?

I think so because that secure attachment is such a foundation for the formation of future intimate relationships. It’s another reason why it’s so important. Now, sometimes when people do have an activated stress response, though, from early life trauma, make it difficult. We have to again call upon an awareness of how we are in a certain moment and also why we might have this elevated stress response and really try to put the pieces together. Sometimes, when we have that awareness, then we can validate what’s happening with ourselves and then we can make sense of it and move forward and then choose these healthy relationships and let that secure object prevail.

I’m wondering also I knew early on in life early I wanted to be a psychologist early and we share that. I also knew I wanted to be a writer, so we share that as well. I’m wondering, was your mom supportive of this path for you?

She was so supportive along. When she saw this is what I was interested, I was interested in going into medicine, she just helped propel me forward and, again, validated me along the way, which we can talk about is one of the most important things that we can do for our kids is to validate their interests, validate their feelings, validate their experiences. Ultimately, I was able to go to a great college, got a full ride so I could go because otherwise there’s no way I would’ve been able to do what I did. I got to do what I love. She was such a foundational part of that.

That was my gut instinct because I believe when this audience member was saying, “What can I do for my kiddo and for me,” we got to the heart of it very quickly, that so many times, we have in our hearts a picture of what we want our kid or kiddos to become. I think this is such an important pivot for readers to know from your personal life because I didn’t have the support you had.

Hearing how this really wonderful mother, regardless of what was happening, finances clearly weren’t there. I saw in your credentials you went to UC San Diego. It is such a fine institution. It is an amazing institution. I love San Diego. She saw that you had this light, this drive, this passion. I have a feeling that if you had said that your light and passion was art or law or coming the beach for treasures to save the ocean, whatever it would be, I have a feeling that she would’ve supported you no matter what.

Yeah, and fostered it.

I’m glad we’re starting here because you’ve already given us such incredible nuggets just working from your personal life about secure attachment, about the internalization of healthy objects. We can also internalize unhealthy ones, but we can get to that. Also, this important piece of knowing that it’s okay to be a good enough parent. Driving for perfection can actually cause harm. I agree with you that the greatest thing we can do for kiddos, for anyone actually, is to be attuned to them. Showing up, and then as you were saying, also validating.

Parenting In An Uncertain World

When we look at what this audience member is asking about with her daughter and the daughter is pre-adolescent, just there on the cusp, and it sounds like she’s concerned there’s a divorce, I don’t know much or anything about the father, but the father’s not in the state. It sounds like he’s not present and she’s really concerned about the state of the world and all of these issues that sound like they’re really beyond her control. Climate change, the political environment. It sounds like her stress and anxiety are very high.

What are some thoughts you would have for her and or other readers about in this uncertain world, whether you’re parenting or a parent to a 1-month-old, 10-year-old, 30-year-old, whatever it is. What would be some of your biggest suggestions? We already have a couple, including validate and I’d love to talk more about validate. Let’s start there.

Yes, so many things. For the big concerns that you address, like the more global concerns and big picture concerns, like climate change and things like that, to be able to talk about it in an age-appropriate way. If you’re going to talk about it with your eleven-year-old in an age-appropriate way and acknowledge your worry about it. I think sometimes we try to shield or hide some of our concerns from our kids and everything’s a balance.

To some extent, that can be fine and appropriate and everything. We also want to model authenticity and if we’re worried about something that could affect them, to talk about it in age-appropriate ways and let them know that you’re worried and can talk about what maybe you can do to contribute. Action steps to help with that worry, but in an actionable way. Those are just some suggestions around that, but overall, to acknowledge and like we said, to validate what the child might be worried about as well.

Thank you for that. I wholeheartedly agree because shielding a child, pretending that the anxiety isn’t there, the issues aren’t there, that’s not helpful. Processing our anxiety so that we’re not dumping it onto a child or unconsciously making it very sticky for them. She says her time is low. Maybe talking to some of her girlfriends if she has a girlfriend or a mother.

Maybe someone in her world where she can download and talk so that she’s not unconsciously taking this unresolved anxiety out onto a kiddo, regardless of what their age is. We do want to work with our stuff, we want to notice it, we want to work with it. Maybe also if she’s noticing that she’s engaging in anxiety-inducing behaviors such as doom scrolling, being on social media or news channels that only inflame her fears, perhaps doing a little bit less of that.

I agree with you in all of those ways. Finding one’s village is so important. Every stage of parenting, sometimes even more as the kids get older. Finding the village to be able to talk about your feelings, your concerns, your worries, a village. Of course, therapy can be useful and sometimes it’s not an option, like she said, financially, but sometimes a village can be even more helpful because people are sharing their experiences and there’s a bi-directional connection.

I can’t emphasize that enough what you said about finding her village and also exactly what you said about the doom scrolling and not modeling that you know for your child as well because then what you can get is negative after negative input. The more input that we have that’s concerning and negative, the more it can build up inside. If you’re having a conversation with someone like with the people in your village, other parents from your kids’ school or from your religious community, from your neighborhood, wherever it might be, then it’s more of a back-and-forth. People tend to sometimes be more balanced in their communication that way.

Absolutely. I love how you’re using the term village because particularly, with this individual saying, “I don’t have a lot of extra time, I don’t have a lot of extra money,” who knows if she has community around her. I don’t know what her living situation is, but whether she’s in a home or an apartment, perhaps, without her knowing it, there’s a neighbor down the street or across the hall or a meetup group, some group. Even if you’re meeting where kiddos can be together in one room and the moms talk in another room and process and talk and just get out some of that built-up stress or anxiety, it can be so helpful. You don’t have to have a big village. Sometimes your village is a matter of a few people and that is good.

Absolutely. To have someone who you can talk to and feel that connection with because that connection we were talking about in early life, that’s so important. It continues to be important at every stage of our own development because we’re continually developing and transitioning through different stages in life, not just in childhood.

Thank you for bringing that up because it’s so important for us to realize that we don’t just become adults and the adult journey once we become 21, once we get those voting rights. Our journey through adulthood is one where, especially if we’re interested in evolving and transforming into increasingly better versions of the self, it is an ongoing journey.

Yes, there are these periods of whether it’s getting married or entering a long-term relationship, entering the career realm, having a child or children, all of these different stages and then moving through midlife and retirement. It is a journey and one where, if you are a parent, I don’t know that the parenting energy get launched but still being a parent continues throughout the lifetime.

Definitely. The parenting journey is one that is accompanied by so many factors that I feel aren’t talked about enough. I come to develop that feeling really as a parent and as a child and adult psychiatrist because I’ve seen the stresses like this parent is talking about that just can get compounded over time. They seem really not to be addressed enough, certainly, but even talked about enough.

At the end of 2024, the US Surgeon General came out with an advisory, I don’t know if you saw it. It was an advisory about stress in parenting and it was called parents under pressure. It was supposed to be, I think, a wakeup call like our parents are stressed because there’s so much on them. It was really so many of the things that this parent I think was talking about. It seems like parents, there are a number of double binds.

That parents find themselves and I’m sure single parents, which my mom was a single mother, more than others. These double binds can really elevate stress, especially for people who maybe already have an activated stress response from any kind of trauma or adverse experiences in their childhood, that stress is going to be even harder to tolerate and they’re going to need even more support.

I think the overall stress that parents are exposed to is something that does need to be talked about, acknowledged and validated. Even if there are some things we can’t do, we can’t fix some of it, at least to validate it can be really stabilizing and promote people’s wellbeing if it’s acknowledged and validated some of the things parents go through.

The Challenge Of Double-Bind In Parenting

Before we launch into validation, just a little bit more, I love that you brought up the double bind. For readers who might not know what you mean, how would you explain that?

It’s like there’s no right answer. There’s nothing you can do about it. I’ll give you an example of something that I’ve thought about along the way in my own parenting. My husband is also a physician. He’s a pediatric oncologist. It’s a very busy job, but for anyone with these usual jobs where they go to work in the morning and they usually come home at night, oftentimes, they have to be at work. Regular adults have to be at work between 8:00 and 9:00, which is around the time or exactly the time when children need to be dropped off at school. This means like maybe this single mother, I don’t know what kind of a job she has, but you cannot drop your child off at school and be at work at the same time.

It’s not possible. What do you have to do? You have to strategize, “Am I going to hire someone to do it? Am I going to work out a carpool?” It’s this added layer of stress. It just doesn’t seem to be acknowledged. That’s just one example. There really are so many for parents where they’re expected to be in the regular adult world, whether that’s in the workplace or whatever, but they’re expected to do that in the regular way without thinking about the needs of their kids, which are also usual needs. This is not even talking about like kids with special needs and things like that, but even just the regular situation for parents.

The double bind, as I see it, and I agree with you, is that no matter what you do, you can’t get it right. You can’t win. I hear about this a lot from clients where they say, “I stayed home and worked from home to take care of my kiddo, but the kiddo needs so much attention that I think I’m giving them less attention than if they were in daycare.” They’re trying to do the right thing, what they perceive to be the right thing, but it’s still not working out. I agree with you. Parenting is filled with so many double binds and we don’t even realize it. Parents who talk to me, I help them see and it’s so, as you say, validating for them to realize, “No wonder I couldn’t get it “right” no matter which direction I went.”

To validate it, even if you can’t fix it right now, hopefully, in time, things can change a little bit a little by little in society for parents to support parents better because there’s so much value in supporting parents, when we think about it. When we think about the costs involved in treating people with postpartum depression and treating kids for the medical sequelae of trauma they might experience because of very stressed out parents and things that can happen in the home. It really would serve society quite well, I think, to support parents more. In the meantime, we can validate the experience, which can be very positive and helpful as well.

Validating The Difficulties Of Parenthood

Let’s now dive into the important skill of validating. For many people, and I hear a lot of people say, “I just want to be validated. I just want to be heard,” and yet the parent may be sitting there with a teen and the child’s experience is, “You are a horrible mother, you never do anything for me.” The parent sitting there going, “If you only knew how much I sacrifice and how tired I am.” Both people want to be validated.

The parent wants to be seen, the child wants the parent to know how ignored and marginalized they feel or whatever it is. How would you navigate? I can imagine with this mom perhaps that’s coming up where she wants to validate whatever her experiences are and maybe things that are going to start coming up for the kiddo.

I would say if it’s possible to step back and view parenting and what you’re doing with your kiddo as a job, it can be easier because the thing about parenting is the personal and then what you should be doing or you can view it as professional, as a job. They get so intertwined. Our own emotions can really contribute to these interactions with our kids when really, some of it might not be the place to do that.

If we can step back and view it as a job, then we can realize validating my kid is so important right now, even if they’re calling me names, even if they’re saying, “I do so much more than you. How can you say that?” Don’t you know in reality, that’s not the case. Maybe is on some level, but regardless, whether it is true or not, it’s their truth in the moment and it’s their experience.

It’s our job as parents to validate and to acknowledge their experience. Not agreeing with the words that they’re saying, but to acknowledge that this is what they’re experiencing and what they’re feeling. If they feel heard and they feel validated, what’s going to happen? More than likely, a sigh of relief, a feeling of being understood. If they’re understood, the ultimate trajectory for that, if these interactions continue to happen this way, is them trusting themselves and their own feelings and their own experiences.

More than anything, that’s what we want for our kids. If they’re ultimately doing better because they trust themselves, they’re more confident, there may be better outcomes, and what’s going to happen from that is it’s going to make our lives easier. It’s going to make our lives easier. It’s worth it to step back and try to view this as a job, even if you’re so mad about what they’re saying because it’s not true.

Maybe you don’t think it’s true or it’s invalidating to you as a person. The thing is, I know it sounds so hard, but it’s not their job to validate us as parents. We need our validation and we need to get it somewhere else. That’s just the reality. It’s one of those really hard realities of being a parent. If we can validate each other, if we can read some books, hopefully my book, to validate the parent, that can be very empowering to us as people, too because parents are people. We absolutely matter. At the same time, we care about our kid and they’re doing well does help us.

It’s that circle. I think with your book, giving support for parents who understand that this child-parent journey, even if it’s been rocky at first, let’s say somebody is reading this and they have a 6-month-old or somebody who has a 16-year-old or a 26-year-old, it’s never too late, in my opinion, to shift. If you’re reading, you go, “I don’t validate my child, or tell them that their experience is wrong, or when I’m anxious, I’ve been crying all over the place and I see my child get anxious as though it was contagious,” that’s okay. Now your eyes are a little more open, your heart’s a little more open to other ways. I believe, and it sounds like you agree and I imagine your book really speaks to this, that we can always shift for the better.

I completely agree with that. What you were saying about all of your crying in front of your kids, that might make them more concerned, sad, anxious, that’s also modeling for them, though, your emotions. That’s okay. Being aware of it and the impact on them, of course, is good. At the same time, that modeling and authenticity is important as well.

I also very much agree with what you were saying about if someone hasn’t been able to validate the way that they would’ve wanted because of their own emotional state, that’s okay. To be aware of it moving forward can be very healing to both parent and child, no matter how old the child is. Also, even going the additional step, if someone is so inclined, to try to repair and apologize. It’s amazing, the power of the apology of a parent to child at any age. Even when they’re little, for a parent to apologize to a kid, it can be so valuable in so many ways.

Repairing what happened and making the kid realize, “That wasn’t okay,” and then putting that in perspective so that they know and showing, of course, the parents caring and modeling, modeling that you can repair. If you do something that you’re not proud of later and it wasn’t in the service of the relationship, but things do happen, you can repair it. That’s just so important relationally, as we move through life, for everyone to know that.

Before I talk a little bit more with you about the repair, I love you brought up the part about being able, if you need to, if you’re in a situation where you feel really sad and you are crying or you’re feeling anxious, it’s not about hiding those emotions, it’s about as best you can, modeling how those emotions are handled in a healthy way.

Not expecting the child to fix your anxiety or fix your sadness or fix your fear, but having the child say, “I saw this or this happened and I’m very sad and this is what I’m going to do,” or, “Right now, I just need a time out to cry, but mama’s going to be okay,” so that the child isn’t put into trying to save you or fix you because they’re still learning how to do that for themselves.

Yeah, just remembering the roles. The parent role and the kid role, it really is that. Thinking about where we are in development along the way and where our child is in development can always serve us so well too, so that whatever the interaction is happening between us and our children, we can reflect and ask ourselves, “Is what’s happening in the service of their development?”

If you find that they’re actually acting like the parent in a certain situation, then you can hopefully think about that and reflect on it and realize, “Maybe we want to change this dynamic a little bit because it’s not really in the service of their development right now.” They’re going through their own stages, we’re going through ours. None of it is easy, but if we can remember to allow these stages to happen according to where someone is in his or her development, that’s in everyone’s interest.

Putting An End To Generational Trauma

You had said earlier how you had gone through touching again on the fact that you went through therapy. I know in my Doctoral program and my Master’s program, we were required to do therapy, which I think is a fabulous idea, clean up your own issues. We forget that as parents, we can be better parents, particularly if we have an insecure attachment style, if we have some unresolved trauma.

Even though you have secure attachment, you realized you had some unresolved issues because of the other factors in your life, and again, I know our audience don’t have the ability to access private therapy, but I always love mentioning that there’s bibliotherapy. A book like your book, finding a good self-help book, is one of the reasons all of my four books have exercises in them so that people can’t afford therapy.

You can get a book for the cost of a couple of cups of coffee and your book is the same, where they’re not tremendously expensive, but they are tremendously valuable. Even if you don’t sit and read it in a weekend, if you read a page a night before you go to sleep, it is so helpful because if we don’t resolve our own issues, we will tend to pass them on to our children. They will tend to be, I think, boulders sometimes in between the parent-child attunement.

This is no shame, no blame to readers or to anybody, but if we have huge issues going on inside of us, it’s going to be really hard to properly attune to a kiddo. We’re going to get activated by them, we’re going to get angry. It’s easy to get angry or irritated a child. Your eyes are getting so big. However, if we don’t tend to our own issues, then we have that intergenerational transmission of them that we don’t mean to do.

That’s exactly right. That intergenerational piece, it looms so large. It’s another thing that I’m not sure if it’s recognized enough from people, parents trying to parent their kids. Sometimes, these issues from their parents can unconsciously, meaning not in their awareness, can contribute to a relational or behavioral cycle. That can continue. The more we can be aware of what’s happening, the better. That’s where that bibliotherapy can be so powerful.

If you are reading about someone else’s experience who went through something similar and maybe what they were going through, what they did about it and what they continue to do about it, it can be very healing because then, what can happen is what’s maybe in there in the unconscious mind can become more conscious and awareness is key.

That’s what I love about the work that you do. For someone who can’t access or afford a child, adolescent or adult psychiatrist, it’s not a replacement for that one-on-one in-person connection, but it is good enough. Sometimes, to read the words of wisdom, to be able to internalize them, within that book, you get a professional on your bedside table.

My hope would be that it could be preventative too, so that someone doesn’t get to the point of needing a child, an adolescent psychiatrist because if something like this can provide the empathy, the tools, the strategies, the validation that’s needed, then maybe they can get their village and then they have people, even if it’s 1 or 2, in their corner who they can share the day-to-day struggles with. That can be so powerful. They can learn to validate and how important that is to prevent outcomes or the sequelae as we call them, of maybe doing things in in the opposite way or something like that.

Managing And Repairing Ruptures In Relationships

Thank you. I know we’re running short on time, so just one more thing that you had brought up, the ruptures and how important it is for us as human beings to know that ruptures happen in relationships. Things break, we get it wrong, and how important it is, especially when there’s a child involved, when the kids are adults, it can be both ways.

Sometimes, the kids do things in adulthood where it’s their turn to repair a rupture, but looking at rupture repair in an intimate relationship, parent, child or otherwise, how important it is to be able to make that apology, that sincere apology, which involves saying, “I am sorry for X, Y, Z and this is what I will do in the future to try to avoid that.” I love that strategy because I know if I get something wrong, I will say to the person exactly that. “I’m so sorry that I hurt your feelings. I will try to do this in the future, but if you ever see something that I do in that, let me know and I’ll correct it in the moment.

When we allow ourselves to repair the rupture, that creates not only is it a gift to the self, but it’s a gift to the other human being of being seen, being validated, and then strengthening that bond of connection that comes with somebody seeing that they created an owie and that they’re going to do their darnedest not to create the same owie again.

Exactly. I completely agree with all of that. It just also reinforces the idea of how important it is to listen to our kids. In my book, I talk about how when my older son, Seth, was very young, he brought to my attention, he said, “I don’t like the way you’re talking to me right now.” I was able to reflect, largely because I think I was going through my childhood and adolescent psychiatry training, which was very powerful and good for me. I was able to step back and reflect and think, “He doesn’t like the way I’m talking.” I did say, “I’m so sorry.” I tried to put the pieces together. Listening to someone else, if something really is going awry and then backtracking and trying to redo, replay and repair, I think, is so important.

I love that redo, replay, repair. It’s not about blame or shame. It’s about the awareness. Awareness doesn’t come overnight, especially if you didn’t have good models for parenting. It’s something that we grow over time, so we’re not going to get it right. Most of us aren’t going through training as we’re parenting to be a psychiatrist or a psychologist. Sometimes, like in my case, it wasn’t until later.

For our audience member who wrote in and all the other readers trying to offer a synopsis here of work on yourself, do some self-work. If you know you have some wounds in there, if you don’t have secure attachment, you can work to earn it. You don’t need to go to therapy. It so helps. There are good books out there. There are support groups that are low-cost, sometimes no-cost.

Again, parenting books, there are some and your book. There are so many ways to get resources and it doesn’t mean you’re a bad person if you’re reaching out for resources, it means you’re a person who cares, like this mother who’s saying, “I don’t want to cause damage. I’m seeing all of these things and I’m scared.” It’s easy to get stuck in being scared.

What I really hear you saying is be proactive. Get support, creative village, talk about things with your kiddo in age-appropriate ways, not like she’s your best friend, but more like, “Tell me what you are worried about. Are you anxious about anything? How are you feeling?” In that way, they can actually do this mother-child journey together, navigating this really uncertain space of life in ways that helps each of them to feel safe and secure. What do you think?

Yes, I agree with that. I agree with it completely. The parent tends to their own needs a little bit outside the relationship with the child so that they can be as present as possible in their job as a parent. Also, just to say that being there, being present, as simple as that is so powerful as well. For parents to cut themselves some slack is really important so that they can know that their everyday interactions with their kid are so valuable just in and of themselves.

Get In Touch With Dr. Raphael

It’s not always about doing more for the kids, it’s about whatever time there is. Cooking dinner together, kiddos doing homework, sitting next to kiddo, doing some work in a self-help book or some self-care reading, even if it’s a romance. Whatever it is, it is that time together. Dr. Raphael, it has been such a delight. I am so grateful for your time. Are there any other final pieces that you want to share?

I just want to thank you as well. This has been such a pleasure talking with you about all these very important and valuable topics. Thank you so much for having me.

It’s such a pleasure. Where can they find you?

Do have a website, DebbieRaphael.com. I’m also on LinkedIn.

Readers, you’ll be able to find Dr. Raphael. You’ll be able to find access to her book. She also has other articles, other publications, so you will be able to find her quite easily. Thank you again, Dr. Raphael, for being with us. We are very blessed. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

To our readers, thank you so much for your time, your energy for tuning in. It is always such a treasure to share time and wise information with you, so thank you again.

Important Links

• Dr. Debbie Raphael
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• Dr. Debbie Raphael Bio
• Carry My Strength
• NAMI Helpline
• Dr. Carla Manly’s Website
• Dr. Carla Manly on Instagram
• Dr. Carla Manly on X
• Dr. Carla Manly on Facebook
• Dr. Carla Manly on LinkedIn
• Dr. Carla Manly on YouTube
• Dr. Carla Manly on TikTok

About Dr. Debbie Raphael

Deborah Raphael, M.D. is a Double Board-Certified Child, Adolescent, and Adult Psychiatrist, who completed her Residency and Fellowship at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). Over the last two decades she has worked with children, adolescents, and their parents in the County Mental Health system, and then with patients across the lifespan in the Outpatient Sector.

Dr. Raphael graduated summa cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of California, San Diego (UCSD) with a B.S. in Animal Physiology and Neuroscience and a minor in Sociology. She went on to obtain her M.D. also from UCSD, where she designed curricula for their Teen Prenatal Patient Education Program—the first comprehensive prenatal teen education program in San Diego, and was involved in educating teenagers and peers in the area of reproductive health.

A former Child Advice Columnist for her County’s major newspaper’s “Kid to Kid,” she now is honored to share her knowledge, training, and experience parent to parent—with the aim to close gaps, promote relationship healing and growth, and prevent illness across the lifespan. Dr. Raphael is the mother of two boys and lives with her husband in California. She grew up in public schools and fiercely believes in access to quality information, teaching, and opportunity for all.