If you’re a pet lover, it’s natural to want your fur baby to be around forever. Even the thought of losing your animal best friend–a source of constant companionship, unconditional love, and joy–can be tough. And when that end does come, the pain can be truly heart wrenching and even immobilizing. From personal and professional experience, I’ve found that the loss of a pet–and the grieving process that follows–can be one of life’s most devastating and hard-to-move-on-from events. In truth, there is something so indescribably sacred and precious about the human and pet companion bond that our hearts–so stuck in grief–can find it difficult to move on. Yet life calls us to move forward, to find peace, and, in time, maybe even a new friend to care for and love. Join Dr. Carla and NYT bestselling author and pet grief specialist, Jon Katz, who will support us in understanding and healing from pet loss. Topics discussed include dogs, pets, companionship, pet loss, death, support animals, emotional support, loss, grief, cancer, dying, vets, veterinarians, psychotherapy, farms, farm animals, anthropomorphism, connection, love, compassion, awareness, cycle of life, relationships, kindness, perspective, and pain.

Please note that this episode contains sensitive material; listener discretion is advised.

Emergency Assistance Note: If you or someone you know needs immediate support, please call your emergency services. In the US, 24/7 help is available by calling “911,” “988” (Suicide and Crisis Hotline), or SAMSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration) at 1-800-662-HELP (4357). Support/informational links are in the show notes.

Connect with Dr. Carla Manly:

Website: https://www.drcarlamanly.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarlamanly/

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/drcarlamanly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drcarlamanly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carla-marie-manly-8682362b/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dr_carlamanly_imperfect_love

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr_carla_manly

Books by Dr. Carla Manly:

Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend

Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships and Love Fearlessly

Aging Joyfully: A Woman’s Guide to Optimal Health, Relationships, and Fulfillment for Her 50s and Beyond

The Joy of Imperfect Love: The Art of Creating Healthy, Securely Attached Relationships

Oracle decks by Dr. Carla Manly:

Etsy

Amazon

Connect with Jon Katz:

Website: https://www.bedlamfarm.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bedlamfarm/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/authorjonkatz

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/katzatbedlamfarm/videos

Books by Jon Katz:

Going Home: Finding Peace When Pets Die

Soul of a Dog: Reflections on the Spirits of the Animals of Bedlam Farm

The New Work of Dogs: Tending to Life, Love, and Family

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Finding Peace When Pets Pass Away with Expert Jon Katz

How To Gently Heal From Pet Loss And Painful Grief

If you’re a pet lover, it’s natural to want your fur baby to be around forever. Even the thought of losing your animal best friend, a source of constant companionship, unconditional love, and joy, can be tough. When that end does come, the pain can be truly heart-wrenching and even immobilizing. From personal and professional experience, I’ve found that the loss of a pet and the grieving process that follows can be one of life’s most devastating and hard to move on from events.

Introduction Of Pet Loss & Listener’s Grief Situation

In truth, there is something so indescribably sacred and precious about the human and pet companion bond that our hearts, so stuck in grief, can find it difficult to move on. Yet life does call us to move forward, to find peace and, in time, maybe even a new friend to care for and love. I am joined by a New York Times bestselling author and pet grief specialist, Jon Katz, who will guide us into the art of understanding and healing from pet loss. We’ll focus on this listener’s real-life question. “My Lola had been with me for fourteen years until I lost her to congestive heart failure.

Last year was tough because I watched her decline and her final death. After I lost her, I went to websites, online support to try to ease my grief. I feel that I am in a good place most of the time. Although when I frequently come across others who ask, “Where is Lola?” I go back to my grief and break down, or when I am at home and start thinking about her not being on this earth. I have looked into getting another dog, but that brings me back to my grief, too. Are there any ways to get through or past this empty loss? How can I be strong in public when others ask about her?” With that issue as the focus of our episode.

I am joined by an amazing special guest, Jon Katz. Jon is a New York Times bestselling author, journalist, dog lover, and human kindness advocate. Jon has graced our world with many wonderful works, including the timeless classic on pet loss and grief, Going Home: Finding Peace When Pets Die. Welcome to the show, Jon. I am so honored and delighted to have you with us.

Thank you. I’m the one who’s honored, think. I appreciate you having me.

It’s such a joy to connect with you. You’re such a wonderful soul and do so much good for so many people who have so many pets. For their people who have lost them, you have really paved the way into helping us understand why we are so attached to our pets and why we mourn them so deeply. Before we launch into this really important topic that affects so many people, could you tell our listeners just a little bit about what makes you you?

What makes me is 77 years of life, I think, particularly getting up there, but you learn a lot. I’ve had a score of dogs and pets written about them. I’ve seen this phenomenal evolution in the way people feel about their animals. I think that’s what we’re really talking about. What’s our perspective going to be, what should it be, what could be helpful? I live on a farm. I live with animal dogs, donkeys, and sheep. I’ve learned to love them and lost many of them. I’ve learned that perspective is very important, or it can just eat you up. In many cases, it’s a good thing to think of getting some help anyway. I can talk about that in greater detail.

Thank you for that background and your life on a farm. I’m a bit of a Luddite. I often think that I belong on a farm instead of in a small town or small city. It sounds lovely to be surrounded by animals. Do dogs hold a particularly special place in your heart?

They have come to occupy a special place in many hearts. When I was a kid, we had a dog, and he didn’t ever set foot in the house. He slept in the garage or the basement if the weather was bad. He never saw that. There was no such thing as dog food. I’m not that old. Now it costs about $3,000 for somebody to have the dog. They are seen often as members of the family. Lots of people tell me, “My dog is like my child.”

I first felt troubled about this when I was on a talk show. Someone said that, “I lost my dog is like losing a child.” The woman next to her started crying. I said, “Did you lose a dog?” She said, “No, I lost a son in Iraq.” When someone tells me their dog is like losing a child, I cry. That awakened me to the idea that I needed to explore this more carefully, because that’s a very hurtful thing to other people to hear. What’s the source of it? The source of it, the dogs have changed their function for basically being a burglar alarm and also, protectors and sometimes companions.

They were never seen as children. They never had human names. They never went to a vet, and they never ate gourmet dog food. More and more over the years, and lots of animal lovers saw this coming, especially the shrinks, I don’t mind the term. Where they said that because the country was becoming disconnected from family, people were moving, people were on television all day, now people are on the internet twice as much, and they lose connection with people. Dogs, increasingly, I wrote a book about this called The New Work of Dogs.

Evolution Of The Dog-Human Relationship & Loss Of Perspective

Dogs have become emotional companions more than the things that they were for centuries. This is really very new for them, and it’s often not good for them and not good for people. Sometimes it’s wonderful to love a dog. I’ve loved countless dogs, and I’ve lost countless dogs. One thing about being on the farm is you learn a lot about life and death, and you have to learn how to deal with that. I think the same challenge is coming up for dog lovers because I think there’s a loss of perspective. I lost two children, and when someone tells me their dog is like a kid, I want to cry too.

I don’t think it’s good for people to get too enmeshed. How do when you’re enmeshed? I think I talked to maybe 30, 40 psychiatrists about this, and many more vets who see this happening and are very alarmed about it. This is what they call extreme mourning. The line that I came up with that they said again and again is when you lose a dog and you cannot stop mourning, like it goes on for the poor owner of Lola. When it goes on for years and you cannot get rid of it, you may need some help. The vets will tell you that if you ask, and most psychiatrists will tell you that if you ask.

Getting Another Pet & Moving Forward Healthily

What I learned to do from writing the book, I ran into a young girl, and she had a chicken that she adored. They were inseparable. The chicken followed her to school and waited for her to come home. What about the time I actually came to interview the mother, but the chicken died, got run over by a car? I said to her, “Poor kid. You must be very sad.” She said, “No. I’m not very sad. I want to get another chicken and love another one. I love this one.” I thought, “The wisdom of that just blew my mind.” She did.

She went and got another chicken and loved it just as much, and did not mourn it anymore. I think that’s one way to look at it, that when you cannot do it by yourself, I believe in therapy. I believe in getting help. That’s what everyone told me. Everyone said the same thing when I interviewed them. If you cannot stop, get help. It doesn’t mean it’s wrong to mourn a dog. That’s fine. That’s loving. It’s natural, but when you get stuck on it and you cannot get out of it, it seems to me there’s often something wrong.

The shrinks say, “The person is offered transferring pain and suffering in their own lives onto the dog. That cannot work out.” It’s also not good for dogs because dogs are dogs. They’re not people. They’re not children. That’s not good for children to say that it’s not good for people, and it’s not good for the dogs because it puts so much pressure on them to make people happy. I know people who’ve lost family members and eventually get through the morning. You have to ask yourself, and I’m not saying there’s anything awful about it, but I think we’ve lost perspective in many ways.

There are so many people in the world who have no money at all and cannot afford to buy dogs, and cannot get them. There are so many dogs that need homes. I always get another dog in a bit of time, and I’m very happy, and I love them just like that kid. She taught me to do that. I do have a little bit of a different perspective, and I’m not unsympathetic to it. It’s awful to love a dog and lose a dog, but I think you have to thinking about step back a bit and thinking, is this really necessary? Is this really good for dogs? Is it good for people? Someone who’s suffering that much for that long, I think, often needs some help.

May I pause for a minute to get clarification? I have a few questions for you. My first one is, I understand, I may have misheard that you personally lost two children?

Yes, I did.

I’m so sorry. I didn’t want to skip that. I’m sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine.

It’s a long time ago, but I still feel it. I never quite get over that. I still feel often for someone of the dogs I moved up here with, Rose, the Border Collie, saved my life like I don’t know how many times, and I would fall down in the snow and the ice, and in a blizzard. She saved the sheep from the babies from getting killed by coyotes, a very brave dog. When she died, which was a heavy loss for me, I just went and got on the Border Collie, and we did it all over again. This one was just as wonderful, and I loved him just as much. To me, that was a good way to do it. I wouldn’t have gotten another dog if I weren’t past the morning.

I don’t know. I felt about you, don’t want to dismiss it as irrelevant, but when you feel like you’ve got it, and again, if you’re stuck with it, I didn’t need a therapist. I certainly recommended it to a number of people, and it usually has worked. They really can help you, as I’m sure you know. A lot of them are like you, which would be very nice. I think that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. Even when you use a term like a fur baby, which is a common use now, I often stop and think about “Was this really a fur baby or is this a dog?” I think you don’t want to lose the meaning of a dog. Dogs were not meant to make us miserable.

Dogs were meant to be with us, to protect us, and to even guide us sometimes. When you turn them into something else, you’re demeaning them. You’re not letting them be dogs. You’re losing your own perspective on. One of the things I had was a woman down the road when Rose died, and she had cancer. She had no money to help. She was going broke, and she was dying alone in her house.

I said, “I’m going to keep some perspective on the dog love because people need help too, and people need loving too. Many of them are not getting it. The dogs are doing fine. People are spending billions of dollars on them. All kinds of expensive dog food.” It’s another issue that comes up is this with the surgery that’s now being done on dogs. It costs $6,000 to $7,000 to have a dog have an operation. They cannot own up to it.

They cannot talk about it. They cannot accept it. They don’t understand what’s happening to them. I won’t do that. I won’t put them through that. Anything like that that they cannot speak up for. That’s tough. It’s very tough when the doctor says, “Your dog has cancer and I can do something about it, but it’ll cost you $8,000.” I won’t do it. I just don’t think it’s healthy for me. I think it puts dogs out of their natural place and into a very complicated emotional place that they cannot deal with. Sometimes we cannot deal with.

Emotional Decisions Vs. Pet’s Well-Being

I agree with you so much. It’s a mental shift for me, but I can tell from personal experience, having especially one particular occasion, I don’t regret much in life. I do see this one time where I had this amazing, great day, I just loved him to pieces. He was injured. I spent an incredible amount of money having him so-called fixed, healed, put back together. I could see in retrospect how that was the wrong decision. I did it for me.

I didn’t do it for him. In fact, I feel pain even now talking about it because in that case, it wasn’t the right decision for the pet, but it was my inability to let go. My inability to allow him an elderly dog who didn’t have the healing capacities. I deferred to what the vet said was possible, and the outcome was not good. When we look at situations like that, and I agree with you again on how we tend to anthropomorphize to see our pets as human. I do it. I have my dog at my feet, my giant schnauzer, and I do call him my fur baby. Why?

I really love how you said the truth, which is that over time, dogs have come away from their place in the field or guarding the home, which is where they were for centuries, guarding the castles, guarding the sheep, guarding the estate, guarding the town, running around eating scraps, whatever they were doing. Over time, as we as a society or societies have become disconnected from each other. We are looking for replacements if we don’t have children, or if our children leave home, or if we’re in an unhappy relationship, or alone in our apartment.

A dog, a cat is often a great comfort, great solace, terrific companionship. I like to say, for me, it gives me a place to put my love. I am able to love and be loved in return. That’s a normal human need. The wonderful part of who we are as human beings is to be able to love and be loved. I agree that when it goes to a degree where we cannot grieve, heal, or move forward, that’s where it becomes problematic because of the attachment to the pet. I agree with you, we do put some of us. I’m raising my hand. I do it too.

We all do that.

I put the burden on my pet, too. Although he’s very good at communicating with me, and I’m very good at listening. For example, I prefer that he go on walks with me. If he doesn’t want to, he sits down in the driveway and puts his paw up like, “No, I’m not walking today.” Even though it would be great to have him as a companion. I’ve learned, “I’m great on my own today.” Little things like that, although my husband does say, “Make him go with you.”

I say, “No, I don’t want to make him go with me.” I do think again, Jon, you have so much wisdom to offer because you’re asking us to look and to have some perspective, not just what is right for us, but also what is right for that being that animal that your non-favorite word, fur baby, and I now, actually, I never honestly ever thought about the pain calling a dog a child or the loss or a baby.

How that might inflict pain on somebody who has lost a human baby, the seeming parity might seem incredibly unfair or thoughtless. Thank you for that nugget for me to really reflect on. When we go back looking, for example, at this reader’s question about how does she move forward from Lola’s death, this grief seems to calm itself to get soothed. She runs into public, someone in public and they say, “Where is Lola?” She goes home, and it’s empty because she’s by herself, and the grief sets in.

I am of the mind, this is something I’ve heard from other people. That one loss triggers every other loss that’s unresolved. If we haven’t grieved certain losses from childhood or the death of people we love or friendships or relationships, often that pet’s loss can also unconsciously be imbued with all of these other layers of loss, this disconnection, yet another disconnection of all of these unresolved disconnections. Does that make sense?

You make a great deal of sense. I’m hearing a person of great self-awareness and great openness, and you’re not yelling at me. You’re open to what you’re doing, you’re thinking about it. You moved ahead with your life, and you have other things in your life. When the dog becomes the only thing of emotional support, it becomes dangerous. Dogs cannot run away. They cannot get it. Go see a therapist. They cannot fight back. They cannot even talk. We’re stewards of these animals. That’s our role for them is to be a steward of them.

We have to think for them. My rule of dogs is that I will not allow them to suffer. If a dog can only be alive by having thousands of dollars of disruptive surgery that they cannot understand or approve of, then I would rather let them go than put them through that. I’ve had a couple of dogs. We also made the mistake of having them amputated for something or another. The dogs have suffered awfully for years. Couldn’t walk right, never was the same. I had no right to do that. It wasn’t like they could go to the doctor and get fixed.

One of the things that I heard from veterinarians again and again is that the worst part of their lives was seeing these dogs suffer because people just couldn’t let go of them. They’re having surgery after surgery, money after money. I went through this with a neighbor who came crying to the house because the dog had cancer and the vet said, “You need to go to the specialist.” That was $2,000. The surgery that the specialist was $7,000. These people don’t have any money, and they were prepared to do it. They realized they would practically go bankrupt if they did it.

Ethical Compassion In Pet Care Decisions

I said, “You need to think about it. You need to think about what you’re comfortable with and what you want to put the dog through. You have to speak for the dog and think about the dog.” Often, people will make a different decision. Let’s say they hate to have those surgeries again and again. The dog is just like that, that’s what they do to humans. We can spare the dogs of that. I think we’re obliged to do that. I think the larger question, we live in a country where people spend 8 hours to 9 hours a day on the internet. Those people are disconnected from humans.

They don’t have town meetings anymore. They don’t know their neighbors. They argue with people they don’t know and cannot see. Unfortunately, I live in a small town in upstate New York, and I’m different from many of the people here in terms of their politics. We talk all the time, because we know each other. We can talk, we can argue, we can share our feelings because we’re looking at each other like you and I are doing. If you cannot do that, you’re just all alone out in the desert.

I say proudly, I was very willing to go into therapy, which I was in for much of my life until just a few years ago, really. It worked, it helps. I think talking to someone else is important. The question that she’s asking, which is a good question, but I cannot answer that. You cannot answer that. I don’t know what your life and history are like.

She needs to talk to someone who can do that. Why am I feeling this? Why cannot I let this go? How can I make it better? In my own experience and the experience of many people I talked to, it was really very simple. You just got another dog. If you loved having a dog so much and it was so wonderful, why won’t you get another one?

Why would you prefer to be miserable for years and years about one that’s no longer there? I think that’s the question that a therapist would ask. An electric, and even the vets, can ask, they’re not allowed to suggest euthanizing a dog because they’re going to get sued. You cannot go to them for that. All they can do is offer you with the tools they have as human doctors to do. You’re on your own. I think if getting help works, it just works.

I agree with you. I’m not biased because I’m a psychotherapist, having been to therapy and greatly learned, and I’ve grown so much as a result of, at times, being in the hands of very good clinicians. I agree that therapy that connection between the therapist and the client and the work that can be done in and out of sessions can be incredibly healing.

A lifesaver for me. I also agree that getting a new pet, which sometimes comes with guilt, sometimes there are practical factors, such as why I cannot afford another pet, or my situation. “My housing doesn’t allow another pet.” If the situation permits it, getting another pet, I think sometimes there’s guilt there, like, “Am I replacing that beloved dog with another dog and treating the one that passed as just a thing that didn’t matter?”

I don’t believe that’s a case the case because that dog has passed on, and if that dog wanted us to be happy, which dogs like seeing us happy, we don’t want them to be our sole source of

happiness. We can also see that getting another pet, Freedom, who is at my feet, is a giant schnauzer. When we finally got him, he just brings me so much joy. In fact, he’s touching my leg right now. He’s pawing at me because he heard his name. I believe that joy that they give us, that ability to help us be in the present moment rather than the past, because dogs very much live in the present moment.

Carla, I have a question. When you get the new dog, are you still mourning the old one?

Not nearly as much because I am in the present. I am enjoying this little being.

That’s what works.

Guilt & The Role Of Compassion In Letting Go Of A Pet

I agree with you. I think sometimes it’s our guilt, the guilt of, “I don’t want to try to replace that pet.” You’re not replacing the pet. You’re bringing in a new source of companionship and relationships. I think that’s really a healthy move. If somebody lost a partner, I wouldn’t tell them, “Your partner passed away, or your partner moved on, or you moved on from your partner.” I wouldn’t sentence them to not having another partner.

I’d say, “Go through the grief, go through it in the morning, do your work. Let’s go through that together. When you’re ready, find another partner.” In this case, I think with human beings, we want to do a lot of work, especially if it’s the end of a difficult relationship to make sure we’ve done our internal healing and internal work. It’s not the same, I believe, with pets. I think bringing in a new source of love and comfort and companionship, especially as you said, there are so many dogs in shelters, 12 million, and they would love to have somebody to want to hold them.

I was listening to a podcast a while back where they were talking about the number of pets out there, especially post-pandemic, that are just being thrown into shelters, particularly in California. Millions, one, the woman was saying, and I found this horrifying. It was a cute little, I guess they call them purse dogs. They asked the woman why she was turning the dog over. She frankly told them, “I’m redoing my living room, and the dog no mat no longer matches my living room.” I’ve never heard of anything like that. I’m not judging anybody. I am saying that a dog would love to be scooped up by somebody who really wanted to love it, no matter what their living room looked like.

When the dog Rose, I was talking about, had cancer. People around me said, “You’re going to do this, and you’ve got to do that.” I said, “I’m thinking of putting her down. No, that’s terrible. She’s a wonderful dog.” I went downstairs, I couldn’t find her, and she was lying in a pool of vomit. This is a very proud working dog who was very strong.

I leaned over and I felt I heard her say to me, “Get me out of here. I don’t want to be like this. That’s not my life.” I always imagine what the dog would say if they could talk. What dogs want of us is for us to be happy. That’s what they do. They want to serve us in any way, love us unconditionally, and help us whenever they can. I don’t think I want to reward them by torturing them for years because I was selfishly in need of them.

I think of them. I don’t think any dog, any of your dogs, would look at you and say, “Let’s stay alive and mourn me for years. It’s not what they’re about. I think they’re about serving us and making us happy. We’re losing that feeling because we’re turning them into emotional slaves for us. If you’re unhappy and you’re alone, there are things you can do to make your life better, other than just getting a dog and expecting them to do all that for you. No, I’m not diminishing the pain of a dog’s loss. I felt it many times, and I still feel the loss of Rose, but I’m not mourning her twelve years later.

I have three wonderful dogs, I’m crazy about them, and we have a great deal of time together. If anything happens to them, I’ll go get another one. I don’t mean that in a light way. It’s a very heavy thing. There are also practical things I’ve found that help people deal with this because I’d like to be helpful and not just pompous.

Preparing For A Pet’s Passing

One of the things I learned to do, and I researched this, is to acknowledge that the dog is going to die and give yourself and the dog family some time to deal with it. “You’re sick. I’m going to put you down, and it’s time for you to leave, but let’s go have a perfect day. Let’s go. You can eat wherever you want. You can go wherever you want. I’ll take pictures of you. I’ll write about you and save the magazine or a little booklet for you.

I even bury them in the property.” The dogs that died here all stayed on the farm. I say hello to them, and I’m nuts just like everybody else is about dogs. I’ve been prepared for it. I give them a wonderful day off. I give them steak and everything else they could want. I say goodbye, and I dig a hole, and we have a ceremony. We take pictures and we let them go. In a week or two or a month, I start looking around and find another one.

Those things I found really help. Those are the things in the book that really seem to help people. A lot of people hide this from their children, and they won’t talk about it in front of the kids. The kids know what’s happening, and they need to be brought into it. The whole family needs to be brought into it and go along with it, and prepare for it. My daughter came up and she wrote a little notebook about the and all of her memories of it and her pictures of it.

She did notes about the dog. She would read that when she was upset. There are things you can do to prepare, but you have to acknowledge that dogs are not going to live forever. They don’t live as long as people. If you’re going to live with dogs, you’re going to have to deal with death more than once because they don’t live long. We can save them the things that we are not saving our grandparents, which is being tortured for years and years by surgery after surgery.

Also, there’s the question of self-preservation. You could do somewhere, you need to think of yourself. “Can you afford $7,000? Is that appropriate? Is there anything else you need to do with that money? Is it going to affect your kids’ college? Is it going to affect your own ability to pay your mortgage?” These are bumpy times. When you go into that vet’s office, Iowa Surge people, you need to have an idea of what your limit is, because one of the things I think that perpetuates guilt.

If you believe that surgery after surgery will keep you from being guilty, there’s no end to it. You’ll keep the dog alive again and again, usually in suffering, so that you just don’t have to feel bad. I think when you step back and look at that, I go into the bed and I say, “Look, here’s how much money I have, and here’s how much money I’m going to spend. I’m not going to spend more than that, because I don’t think it’s appropriate.” I don’t feel it’s fair to the dogs. Now, I know that’s a minority point of view. I don’t mean it in a cruel way. I don’t want dogs to be a disaster or tragedy for me. I love them and I love being with them. I don’t want to turn it into some suffering drama.

You are very kind and compassionate and far from heartless or cold. You’re giving us a mix of pragmatism and perspective and gentleness and heart. This territory, I’m here on the other side of the screen from you with tears in my eyes, and I’m not ashamed of them. It’s painful to talk about pet loss. It’s painful for us to talk about loss at all. Humans don’t like loss. We like connection. The biggest focus of my work is helping people love more, love safely, and be connected.

Yet you’re really highlighting some critical truth, one of which is that pets will naturally die. They have shorter lifespans. To prepare ourselves for that, not trick ourselves into thinking they’ll live forever. I have done that myself. I have certainly convinced myself that my Great Dane would last 50 years. He was never going to last 50 years. When we do these little mind tricks to ourselves, we need to get a bit of objectivity, pull back, and be honest with ourselves about what is best, what is a reality.

A great day may live if we’re lucky, 10 to 15 years. When that time comes, wherever it is in that continuum, whatever the type of dog it is, how are we going to let that dog go? If it’s cancer, are we going to let them go? If it’s something that’s fairly easy on the dog to address, are we going to do that? Again, keeping in mind and parroting what you’re saying or what I’m hearing you saying, that balance between what is best for the pet, what is best for our lives, and what is going to create an outcome that is healthy for everybody.

You’re actually a great role model because you love the dog very much, obviously, and you love the new dog. I noticed that whenever you mentioned the Great Dane, your tears came in your eyes. Whenever you mentioned the new one, you smile. I think there’s a lot of lesson in that. You said, you have a right to be happy. I know you treated the dog well, I can tell, we’re great being your dog, I can tell that right away. You also have perspective.

Moving Forward & Healing After Loss

I think you are able to feel joy with the dog being gone, even though it brings up tears, and you’re able to feel happiness with the new one, which eases the pain. That is a great role model for people to pay attention to. I think that’s exactly, you ask what really works, that’s what works. Of course, accepting it as a part of life. Death and life are cousins. You cannot have one without the other, especially dogs. If you’re going to have dogs in your life, you’re going to learn trouble and sadness.

You’re going to learn how to move on. If you don’t learn how to move on, I would say you need help. I cannot tell you when, that’s a personal individual. The person who wrote you is saying, “I don’t know why I cannot get out of this.” That’s where she needs help, somebody helping her figure that out. She’ll feel better. Getting another dog, she’ll feel even better. It always makes me sad when people don’t do things that will heal them and will just stay miserable.

That’s not what dogs are about. That’s a perversion of the dog reality. They’ve been so good to people for so many centuries, for so many things. I really feel obliged to do my part. Now it’s my turn when the dog is sick to do well by them and make sure they don’t suffer one minute more than they have to. That’s my responsibility. We just went through this with a chicken, I have to say. We loved the chicken. She gave us eggs for twelve years. She was not wanting to go. She had a lot of life in her.

Finally, we had to go out and kill her because she was suffering so badly. The other animals were coming after her. She was drawing maggots. We couldn’t let that happen. We thanked her. We had a little sniffle, and we buried her in the backyard. That’s what a farm teaches you, is you cannot be on a farm if you don’t do that. You’ll go broken, ruined in a minute. Also, in talking to people about this for years and researching it, I saw just an incredible increase in dog suffering. They are dogs, they deserve to be respected as dogs.

I do have to say, you’re talking about farm life. I don’t think I’m quite ready for farm life yet. I think I would be a hot mess. I have some ways to go, but I appreciate that honesty, because you’re right. You think of the book, All Creatures Great and Small. It is that cycle of life. We have society today has distance us from that natural cycle of life, of birth and death and birth and death. I agree on so many fronts.

The Disconnect From Nature & Its Impact On Loss

You’re really opening my eyes on so much, Jon, that this part of loss is indeed because one part of it is that we have, we’re not in touch with natural life anymore. We’re in our homes, our high rises, our apartments, disconnected from nature. We don’t see that natural part you’re talking about, of the dog passing, or the chicken passing, or the cow passing. All of those are extremely for anyone. Most people have never encountered that.

You and my wife would love each other. My wife goes out every morning into the water tank where the animals go. She looks for bugs that are drowning. There’s always 2 or 3 in there. They fly in there. They cannot get out. She takes it. She goes every morning and picks them out one by one and holds them until they dry, and then lets them off. She saves like bugs all the time. I first look at this and “You’re out of your mind. I never heard of anybody doing this.” Now I’m doing it. I go, when I look at it, “There’s one in there.”

I think she respects nature and loves it and helps it in that way. That’s where the animal thing is very beautiful. You can also do that with dogs. You can give them great lives. I give my dogs terrific lives. They run around, they get food, they get snacks, they get love. They live the life of dogs. That’s the gift to us, really, I think. That’s what it feels really great. Your dog is at your feet now. I could picture it. It’s a lovely image. She’s going with you to work.

I have a dog right under my feet, a lab, who, whenever I’m working, doesn’t speak or move. She sits there, and when the computer turns off, she hops up and is ready to go. I have that same feeling. My dog is always with me when I write. When I go on the computer, she comes in, just curls up at my feet, and goes. This is a big dog. She goes to sleep, and she’s never made a sound while I’m either doing a Zoom or writing, or thinking. The minute I get off, she can be as big a pain.

She knows she knows. I do have to say you’re right about your wife and I, we have definitely much in common. I rescue worms. My husband laughs. I rescue salamanders, birds, anything. I take spiders outside.

I used to kill spiders in the house. Now I’d have to call her, “The real spider in the bathroom.” She comes running in with a towel, and she just pulled a bird out of our wood stove that’s stuck in there. I’m saying I wouldn’t do that. It’s the thing that’s warm and dangerous. She plucks it out, shows it to me, talks to it, and then takes it out. I think that’s great. We love that. We love that about our lives that we can do that. I never thought of saving bugs like that. She has pictures of them. They dry off and shake their wings. You cannot even see them. They fly away. She would not let a bug die like that.

The Healing Process In Grief & Finding Joy After Loss

Tying this back to the reader’s question, how can we heal when we are in a place of loss? Five minutes ago, I had huge tears in my eyes and was hoping I could find a piece of tissue and not snivel too much when I’m on Zoom or recording a show. Here we go. I’m smiling. I’m laughing. Why? It’s because we’re talking about rescuing that which we can, loving that which we can. For our listener who wrote in and all of our listeners, that grief, I remember when I lost my mom, and I was just crying everywhere, everywhere.

It was a tremendous loss. It subsides. All loss subsides. It doesn’t mean I don’t miss her every day, that I don’t grieve her still. Yet that is part of healthy loss, healthy grieving is realizing that over time it subsides over time it subsides. Unlike a dog, I cannot get a new mother, but I can cherish my mother’s memory, I can cherish my great Danes’ memory, I can cherish any other pet’s memory, and move on. Finding moments of joy. Finding peace and realizing that when loss does come up or grief does come u,p and you feel that ow as I was feeling seven minutes ago when I was thinking of Bentley, that’s okay. I don’t have to stay there. It’s okay to cry.

It’s very healthy to cry.

Go ahead, cry.

Let it move through yourself.

You said it perfectly. You let it move through you. That is what we are intended to do with all of our feelings, all of our emotions. Feel them move through. Feel them just like the joy. We cannot hold onto the joy forever, but we can certainly hold it to us, cuddle with it. If a loss comes or a sad memory comes, feel it, let it go.

We have an obligation to treat them well, but we also have a right to be happy and to do what makes us happy. Doesn’t mean we’re not going to cry or regret things or whatever. I think you acknowledge your pain, and you acknowledge what you would change and not change. Unfortunately, most people have trouble doing that. They feel like their obligation is to keep this animal alive forever.

No matter what its costs are goes through. I know of a woman who wrote me that she spent $17,000 on cat surgery for a urinary infection. She went bankrupt. She lost her house. She was on a radio show and she said, “I feel really good about that because I’ve proven that I really love the cat.” I said, I’m thinking, “You’ve proved some other things too that you need to get some help.” I didn’t say that, but there are stories like that all over the place.

Any vet can tell you 100 of them, like in a minute. It’s really good to talk about it. I think it’s good to cry. It’s good to do whatever you need to do. You said it rightly. It does go away. If you let it, if you don’t let it, to me, that’s when you need help. A vet cannot do that. A lot of veterinary schools are now actually hiring or training social workers because the vets are overwhelmed with these emotional problems, and they don’t know what to say. Not a bad idea.

That makes sense. For our reader, her question sounds as if a year or so later, sounds as if the feelings are subsiding. They surely come up, they get triggered by people’s questions or an empty home, and that just continues. Maybe she needs or wants a psychotherapist or a social worker, somebody to chat with. Yet also if she notices even after reading that she can make space for those occasional bubbles of grief and continue to let them go. Jon, you’re such an amazing soul. I’m so honored to spend time with you.

Thank you very much. Much more than I imagined, I would enjoy it very much. You never know, but it was really great. I’m available anytime you want to talk about it. Either on your program or even just on the phone.

Thank you.

To talk through something. I suspect we’re going to hear from a lot of people.

You’re a very precious, kind soul. I am blessed. Thank you.

Thank you. I feel the same way.

Where can our readers find you? Your work is easy to find. You’re an amazing soul. Where can our listeners find you?

My main link now is on a blog. I moved away from publishing. I didn’t really like the way publishing was going, so corporate and all. I started a blog and I have a lot of people, like a million and a half people, on the blog. It’s BedlamFarm.com. I also became a photographer. Take a lot of pictures of flowers and stuff like that. I write about a lot of different things, but also I’m working to be a safe place in these times of petulance and fighting. I don’t allow any arguing, don’t allow any hateful emails, I don’t allow any of that.

It’s a safe place for people to go when they’re feeling afraid. I put up flower pictures every day for three years, just because people really want to see them. It’s made me a pretty good photographer. That’s exciting for me to be able to do that and grow like that. I love the farm, I love my wife, I love my life. I believe now something I didn’t know that I do have the right to be happy. I have a right to love dogs in a way that is meaningful to me and not painful. That’s my spot. I really enjoyed talking with you. You’re just lovely.

You’re lovely too. You’re just precious and adorable and wonderful. Again, I’m truly grateful. Also, readers, please, you’ll be able to find links to Jon’s work in the show notes. It’s Jon Katz. His photography is absolutely exquisite, so that’s a bonus on top of everything else. Jon, again, I thank you for sharing your time, your love, and your energy with us. I also have to say thank you for creating a safe space. I’m not a fan of a lot of the anger and side-taking that’s out there. I’m a big fan of safe spaces and kindness, and love.

Thank you for the work you do on that front, too. It’s critical in today’s world that people have a safe space that honors the importance of kindness and love. Different perspectives, but always kindness and love. Thank you. To our readers, thank you for sharing this heart-touching journey with us. It has been a joy and a privilege, and as always, I thank you for being with us and this is Imperfect Love.

Important Links

• Jon Katz
• Jon Katz on Facebook
• Jon Katz on YouTube
• Jon Katz on Instagram
• The New Work of Dogs
• All Creatures Great and Small
• Going Home: Finding Peace When Pets Die– Amazon
• Soul of a Dog: Reflections on the Spirits of the Animals of Bedlam
• Association for Pet Loss
• Going Home: Finding Peace When Pets Die – APLB
• NAMI HelpLine
• Dr. Carla Manly Website
• Dr. Carla Manly on Instagram
• Dr. Carla Manly on Twitter
• Dr. Carla Manly on Facebook
• Dr. Carla Manly on LinkedIn
• Dr. Carla Manly on YouTube
• Dr. Carla Manly on TikTok

About Jon Katz

Jon Katz is an American journalist, author, and photographer. He was a contributor to the online magazine HotWired, the technology website Slashdot, and the online news magazine Slate. Katz initially worked as a reporter for The Philadelphia Inquirer, The Boston Globe and The Washington Post, and later as of the CBS Morning News.

His media criticism, columns and book reviews appeared in such periodicals as Rolling Stone and New York (he was a contributing editor to both magazines), Wired, GQ, and The New York Times. Katz has written several novels as well as non-fiction works which cover topics ranging from geek culture to people’s evolving relationship with animals.

He wrote a successful series of mystery novels centered around the character Kit DeLeeuw, a former Wall Street financier turned private investigator, based in the fictional Rochambeau, New Jersey. His more recent work explores his own relationship with his dogs (and other animals) on his farm in upstate New York and broader issues of animals’ place—both physically and emotionally—in the modern world. Among his many wonderful books is his classic work, on pet loss “Going Home: Finding Peace When Pets Die.”