Are you a naturally nurturing person who finds that acts of loving kindness are being mistaken for invitations to be taken advantage of or manipulated? For many generous souls, the moment they begin setting boundaries, the pushback can feel enormous.

This is the painful reality for one mother, whose question forms the focus of this episode: “I finally realized my daughter is manipulating me… I have started saying no. This has made her really angry. She is worse than ever and threatens to cut me off if I do not give her whatever she wants.”

How do you keep your boundaries without losing your child?

In this essential discussion, Dr. Carla Manly is joined by clinician and host Dr. Darcy Sterling to provide expert tips on how to create and maintain strong, healthy boundaries, navigate uncomfortable conflicts, and avoid falling back into old, detrimental patterns.

We often think that giving our loved ones everything they want and need is the right thing to do. And this is especially true for those of us who are naturally nurturing and giving. Yet, from my experience, I’ve found that certain people mistake acts of loving kindness for invitations to take advantage–or even abuse–generous souls. When this occurs, eye-opening moments often help the giver realize they are being used or manipulated. And if strong boundaries are then put in place, the push-back can be enormous. Today, I’m joined by a terrific clinician who will provide tips to help you create and maintain healthy boundaries.

Topics discussed include family, friends, children, adult children, parents, parenting, emotional blackmail, boundaries, demands, ultimatums, estrangement, conflict avoidance, tolerance, discomfort, healthy boundary setting, empathy, validation, listening, reinforcement, negative behaviors, people-pleasing, and imperfect love.

Sensitive Episode:

Please note that this episode contains sensitive material; listener discretion is advised.

Emergency Assistance Details: If you or someone you know needs immediate support, please call your emergency services. In the US, 24/7 help is available by calling “911,” “988” (Suicide and Crisis Hotline), or SAMSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration) at 1-800-662-HELP (4357).

As applicable, additional resources may be provided in the show notes.

Non-Emergency Online Mental Health Information: https://www.nami.org/support-education/nami-helpline/

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IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: No expert is offering medical or psychological direction or advice; the content is purely informational in nature. Please consult your physician or healthcare provider before undertaking any new regimen or procedure.

Connect with Dr. Carla Manly:

Website: https://www.drcarlamanly.com

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Books by Dr. Carla Manly:

Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend 

Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships and Love Fearlessly

Aging Joyfully: A Woman’s Guide to Optimal Health, Relationships, and Fulfillment for Her 50s and Beyond

The Joy of Imperfect Love: The Art of Creating Healthy, Securely Attached Relationships

Imperfect Love Relationship & Oracle Card Deck by Dr. Carla Manly:

Etsy

Amazon

Connect with Dr. Darcy Sterling:

Website: https://www.askdrdarcy.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdarcysterling

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrDarcySterling/

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Getting Strong: Setting Boundaries without Losing Relationships

How to Set Boundaries, Avoid Manipulation, and Stay Strong

We often think that giving our loved ones everything they want and need is the right thing to do. This is especially true for those of us who are naturally nurturing and giving. Yet in my experience, I have found that certain people mistake acts of loving kindness for invitations to take advantage of, or even abuse, generous souls. When this occurs, eye-opening moments often help the giver realize they are being used or manipulated.

Listener’s Real-Life Question about Daughter Manipulation

If strong boundaries are put into place, the pushback can be enormous. I am joined by a top-notch clinician who will provide tips to help you create and maintain strong, healthy boundaries. We will focus on this audience’s real-life questions. Help. “I finally realized my daughter is manipulating me, and I do not know how to change the pattern.

It is my fault because I have given in to everything she has ever wanted since she was a kid. I could not handle her tantrums, but now that she is an adult, I have started saying no. This has made her really angry. She is worse than ever and threatens to cut me off if I do not give her whatever she wants. Please help me figure out how to keep my boundaries without losing my child.” That question is the focus of this episode.

I am delighted to be joined by a very special guest, Dr. Darcy Sterling. Dr. Sterling is a clinician, educator, and host of the We Need To Talk with Dr. Darcy Sterling. Welcome to the show, Dr. Sterling. How are you?

I am well, thanks. How are you doing, Carla?

I am well. It is such a joy to have you with us today. As we launch into this really important topic, I really honor that you are with us and have such profound experience to share with us. Before we get into the subject matter, could you tell our audiences just a little bit about what makes you, you?

Dr. Sterling’s Honest and Transparent Clinical Approach

I am someone who respects you enough to tell you the truth. I am always going to tell you my honest perspective, and I am going to be transparent about why I feel the way I feel, and I am not going to shroud it in a ton of words because I believe that we can all tolerate honesty when we are in the right relationships.

I lean into the things that other people tend to avoid. I like to explore conversations that feel uncomfortable, mostly because in society today, I think we avoid tough topics. That is what makes me me.

I really love that. It is such a beautiful approach. I am with you. At my core, that is how I feel. I tend to get much softer with people because I do not like a lot of conflict or confrontation. I am much better than I used to be, but kudos to you for being able to really navigate it with that inner strength. Thank you for sharing that. Now, I have to say, I really agree with you on the honesty. I think honesty is such a critical piece, and being honest does not need to be brutal.

Some people, as you said, honesty is there in the right relationships. With some relationships, and this is what I have really learned, it is when you are really direct and honest, and the other person, whether it is a friend, a family member, or colleague, when you are kindly honest, gently honest, some people just cannot take that. Learning how to deal with that is such a critical piece because you do not want to lose yourself by learning to be disingenuous or stand down or not speak your truth.

That said, that is who I am as a therapist. That is not necessarily how I move through the world. People in my personal life prefer me to have an editing process. That is the social contract of society. We are not meant to just disseminate the truth to anyone, no matter who they are in our lives, without discretion. We have to have an editing process and think it through. Just because something may be true does not mean that the person needs to hear it. From a clinical perspective, that is how I approach my work, just to clarify.

Thank you for that clarification. It is wonderful that you clarified that. Now I get it. You are making me think of Carl Rogers, who really talked about the three tenets of good psychotherapy. Genuineness, empathy, and unconditional positive regard. That genuineness really is how I show up with my clients. I am genuine.

Genuine means that we are honest. We want to be transparent. Otherwise, we are not walking the talk. How can our clients trust us? Wonderful. Now, let us start with this audience’s question. It is a big one and one that I hear about frequently from clients, from people writing in. It is not an uncommon issue, and it seems to be getting worse. What are your thoughts?

Discomfort is a Necessary Part of Life and Relationships

We have an epidemic of estrangement in this country and maybe even in society at large. I will just speak to what I experience here in the States. We have never been more therapy literate. We have never had a generation of people who are more conversant in therapy speak, who are more in touch with their feelings. Yet we have an entire generation of people who understand sound bites as general rules outside of the nuance.

When we say something like boundaries are important, that does not mean that you are never going to be uncomfortable. If you think that asserting a boundary is appropriate every time you are uncomfortable, unfortunately, social media has made that very prevalent. People hear soundbites, they see quotes, and they overgeneralize the meaning of those. The problem is that we have a lot of people who are averse to discomfort, and discomfort is part of life.

It has resulted in people being quick to write people off with whom they disagree. It has led to the avoidance of difficult conversations because people frame it as “I do not like confrontation.” I am very sorry. You are a relationship therapist. You are not going to have fulfilling relationships if you are not willing to have difficult conversations, because what you will have is a rinse and repeat of new conversations across many people.

The minute a relationship becomes safe enough for deeper conversations, which I consider to be assertive conversations, not confrontational, but assertive, where I get to be me, you get to be you, you say black and I say white. We see if we can get along despite the fact that we do not think the same way.

The minute people get to that moment, they start to see there is a difference between us. “I do not like the way that person expressed the difference that they feel towards me. This must be toxic. I need to get out of this relationship.” We are having an epidemic of people, and I can tune into this audience’s question, both parents and children, who view disagreement through a lens of “There must be something inherently wrong here.”

Instead, for there to be a disagreement, there must be safety. The fact that there is conflict actually speaks to a level of safety. When people come to me and say that they do not have disagreements with their loved ones, red flags go off immediately for me in my head. I immediately wonder, “Are we talking about an insecure attachment style here?”

People are walking on eggshells. People are doing whatever they can to avoid having discomfort in relationships, but there is no fulfilling relationship without discomfort. I do not see how you get one without the other. This is a long-winded way of saying how I see this situation. This is a very prevalent problem in society.

When we threaten our loved ones with estrangement or cutting them off, we are not promoting safety or security. We are actually rehearsing very maladaptive coping mechanisms because that cannot be the way you set a boundary. You cannot set a boundary by saying, “Unless it is at a level.” If we are talking zero to ten, zero is neutral on discomfort, and ten is the most discomfort imaginable.

Unless we are talking at a 9 or a 10, the person is provoking us, triggering us at a 9 or a 10, or there is objective abuse. There is no reason to ever threaten estrangement. That does not mean that the mother has not provoked some of the daughter’s feelings. Her characterization of the problem is very convenient. She says she has done this to her daughter because she has given her daughter everything. How giving that looks, how selfless that looks, how self-reflective that looks?

I think that there is probably a more nuanced answer to their issue. Probably, the mother has not just given the daughter everything, but the mother is also conflict-avoidant. The mother does not like setting boundaries. The mother does not like saying no. The mother has been overly generous, or perhaps she has also done that and encroaches. There is something the mother is doing that is making her daughter feel like she has to threaten the relationship.

Let us take a pause. That was a really beautiful overview. I really appreciate it. The reason I paused is that there is so much in each of the pieces that you said. I do not want to oversaturate audiences and lose some of the beautiful pieces that you offered. I really appreciate the part, Darcy, where you were talking about how important it is to see boundaries. My paraphrase of it is. A boundary is not the same thing as “Do what I want.”

That is a key issue that many people say because they are listening to these sound bites. “I told you to do this, and if you did not do this, you have crossed my boundary.” That is not a boundary crossing. That is a demand that was not met. They are two different things, but they are conflated so much. There are these ultimatums. “Do this or I will not talk to you.” “Do this, or you will not see the grandkid.” “Do this or I will never text you again,” whatever it might be. What do you think of that piece just starting there?

Boundaries Versus Demands and Ultimatums

I agree with you. I think that people confuse boundaries with people who do not adhere to their demands. In fact, the other person just disagrees with what you asked for. Sometimes a boundary is “Please do not do this thing anymore,” but it cannot be “You must do this other thing.” It cannot be a request. A boundary is saying stop. It is not saying do something different. People conflate those two things. When they make a request, thinking that it is a boundary, and the person that they have made it with does not comply, it is very easy to miscategorize that as “You are not adhering to my boundaries.” Actually, you guys just disagree.

I love how you simplified it, Darcy, by saying a boundary is saying, “Please do not do this again.” Everyone has different boundaries. For someone, sending flowers in the mail is not a boundary crossing. For somebody who receives the flowers and they are not wanted, they have every right to say, “Please do not send me flowers. I do not like them,” or “It felt too much like you were coming on to me,” whatever it might be.

To tell the person “You crossed my boundaries,” the person did not know they were crossing a boundary. A boundary crossing would result if they kept sending you flowers even when you told them that they make you sneeze or that you do not like them. That is an important piece to set when we are talking about boundaries because boundaries are so misunderstood.

When the person who wrote in is talking about getting boundaries, it sounds like maybe she has not had boundaries, and she had this epiphany for whatever reason. Now she is starting to say “No, I will not do this” or “I will not do that.” Now we are into breaking. However, the patterns were set. As you said, maybe the mother was over-giving because it made her feel good. Maybe the mother was over-giving and did not know how to say no because she is conflict-avoidant.

Whatever those issues were, those were important for her to dive into so that she does not repeat them moving forward. The daughter can have conversations with her about how and what occurred and how to do it differently. It is the shutting-down piece, the threat piece, that is really prominent here. Please say more because I know we have covered that as one way to get some of those foundational boundaries really established. What do you think about the threat piece? What does that tell you?

What it tells me is that we are missing some data. It is so easy for someone to say, “I have given this person everything. Now that I am starting to say no, they are threatening me.” That may be true. Also, you may be missing or overlooking some very important information about what your daughter is asking for. If you minimize the request simply because the daughter has a history of throwing temper tantrums and not accepting no, it does not mean that every request this daughter makes is outside of the bounds of normal young adult or adult parent relations.

It is incredibly minimal. You cannot be entirely right as the parent, and your daughter cannot be entirely wrong. I am immediately seeing glaring flags that we are missing some very key information. This is a binary description of a problem in a relationship. It is not a nuanced description. That tells me that the mom sees things in black and white terms, and maybe the daughter does as well. I do not like threats in relationships. I like compromises in relationships. I like dialectical approaches to conversations and difficulties, meaning it can be a yes and no conversation.

Yes, your daughter may have been difficult to raise. Yes, you may have overindulged. Yes, she may not want you showing up at 10:00 on a Saturday night when she and her partner are in bed together without a phone call or a text first. We do not know what the daughter is objecting to when somebody characterizes something in such stark terms. “I have given them everything, and so now that I am setting boundaries, they are threatening the relationship.” That feels like we need to go five layers deeper.

Because we only have the questions and cannot get those details, I will just throw in some random details based on things I have read, heard, or seen, so it is not a particular person. Let us imagine that this daughter is saying, “I am moving to San Francisco, and I want you to give me $5,000 a month for housing.” The mom says, “I will give you $100 a month for utilities until you get established. If you are choosing a $5,000 a month place in San Francisco, maybe you need to get established first.”

The daughter comes back and says, “No, I want my $5,000 a month for my place in San Francisco, or I am cutting you out.” Let us imagine that just for the sake of conversation. How would you help this audience deal with the daughter so that she can, as she wrote in, “I do not lose my child, but I want boundaries?” We cannot fix what happened in the past, but helping her pave a way for the future, what would you advise?

How to Set Boundaries: Validate, Assert, and Disengage

The analogy is a very easy one to navigate because, in that example, the child is being unreasonable. The mother validates the daughter’s feelings. “I understand that you would like support. This is what I can give you.” The daughter either has to accept that or not. The mother has to disengage from the debate, from the negotiation. There is an internal boundary that actually has to go up here.

You do not engage in the art of persuasion when you are setting a boundary. You do not try to persuade the other person that your boundary is reasonable. You assert the boundary lovingly, compassionately, but firmly and clearly. There is a disengagement that has to happen because if you do not disengage, then it becomes an endless negotiation.

Expecting someone to say, “Thank you for that boundary, you are going to make me a much better human,” is an unrealistic expectation. Your side of the street is to set the boundary as I said lovingly, directly, and compassionately, but not expect the other person to have a level of awareness of “This is going to benefit me and you in the long term.”

That is not going to be the other person’s response. You have to know how to disengage and let them work through their feelings and be there when they want to revisit communication. You do not expect the person to be persuaded into understanding, “I see why you are setting this boundary.” That is a fantasy.

I love that very simple framework because in situations like this, we can see that the mom is likely in a no-win situation, as you are saying. The daughter is unlikely to say, “Mom, I get it. Thank you. Boundary accepted. $100 instead of 5,000. That is fine.” The mom does not have to rationalize the boundary she set. I agree with you.

It is about the mom may be a billionaire and she may think that for the child’s best interest, giving more than $100 a month is not the wisest thing to do, but the idea that you set to us so clearly that you are kind and empathic as you set the boundary, you are very clear, you empathize with the person’s feelings, you have to know, “I get it. I hear that you would really like $5,000 a month for this lovely place in San Francisco, I get that.” You disengage.

You do not negotiate, you do not explain yourself. You do not have to say, “I am sorry, I am not giving you everything you want.” It is not about that, and then it really works. This is the hard part. It is such a hard part to actually wait for that adult child to work through their end of things and hope that they come back to you. Many parents lose it right there.

They become so anxious and miss their kids so much that they go chasing them and ultimately give them what they want. Not only are we back at square one, but we are also worse off than we started because the child goes, “Now I get my ice cream cone.” Whether it is money for rent or an ice cream cone, whatever it might be, they get what they want. You have fed that little monster inside that person.

The Danger of Asserting a Boundary You Can’t Hold

Now you have just taught the child that you will not stand your ground. Now the child knows not to trust anyone anymore as a boundary. You have just reinforced that you are definitely worse off than you were beforehand. I spent the first fifteen years of my career as a parent coach before I became a relationship therapist, same skills, different application. One of the things I told parents is that before you set a boundary, you have to think long and hard on your worst day.

“Can you hold this boundary?” If you cannot stand by it, you are going to be making the pattern so much worse because you are going to be reinforcing that they should not believe you. However long you hold out and then give in, let us say it is hours, days, or weeks, that person has just learned, “If I just keep at them for hours, days, or weeks,” however long it took for the parent to give in, you have guaranteed that child is now going to negotiate with you like the best trial attorney for that length of time.

As you have seen in your work and I have seen in mine, there is this increasing pattern of emotional blackmail. Sometimes, there is financial blackmail involved, where the child is saying, “Unless you give me what I want.” The parent, regardless of the old patterns that set the stage for this, cannot fix those. What we can fix is moving forward. Let us find healthier, stronger, clearer, and more transparent ways forward.

When you do that, you can see the old extinction burst. They ratchet up the behavior, and they get worse, angrier, and meaner, praying that they will win the battle and that the parent will give up so they get their needs met. They are back into the old boundary-less, give me what I want, dynamic. I often tell my clients who are facing these kinds of situations, “It is the best gift you can give your child to hold strong.” As you said, Darcy, when you are setting a boundary, you have got to think long, hard, and true. “Can I hold this boundary? Is this that important to me?”

We look at our boundaries as lines for the relationship, lines that will be good for both people in the long run. To me, that is what these family boundaries look like. Yes, they are hard to set. Yes, they are even harder to enforce because we want to be loved and connected to our kids, partners, and friends. If somebody keeps crossing our boundaries once they are set and then we give in, then we have really become part of the problem rather than correcting the old behaviors that led to it. What is your take?

I agree with that. Problems in relationships are never one-sided. There is always culpability on both sides, and that is actually the good news. If everything is the other person’s fault, you have lost all power in the solution. You have to be part of the problem to be part of the solution. Some people can over-identify with being part of the solution, which becomes its own beast of a problem, but in this instance, you have to recognize the way in which you co-created the situation that you are existing in. It is not just that you gave your child everything. That is a very gratifying characterization of something that your child would probably characterize so much differently.

I appreciate that. It is interesting, as I read the question, I took it slightly differently. I took it as the mother saying, as you said, it is really hard to get the nuances when people have only so many characters that they are sending you through the website portal. My take was, “This mother is not saying my daughter is a spoiled brat.” She is saying, “It is my fault. I gave in to this.” I should not say more about why she gave in, but we know there are lots of reasons.

Maybe she is a working mom and was overcompensating. Maybe she feels like she was not a good mom. Maybe she just did not have the bandwidth. I have kids, so I know when they have their temper tantrums, it is so tempting to give in and say, “It is fine, whatever, just stop fussing, yes, I will give you $5 for that.”

There were a lot of times I held my boundaries and a lot of times where I just gave in because I was tired. I can identify with her and thought, “This sounds like it could really be getting bigger and bigger.” If it were a pattern where she just gave in because it was easier or she was tired, maybe she was a single mom, I do not know, I could really understand.

To me, it felt like she was taking responsibility. “It is my fault. I see this pattern now, and I am waking up. Now that I am aware of my pattern of being steamrolled and I am trying to set boundaries, she is steamrolling me back even harder.” Interestingly, we both had different takes on it, which I really love because we are coming from different perspectives.

I understand your perspective. I see that as a layer of truth as well. For me, it is not about the intention or the reason behind it. The reason could be so legitimate. All the reasons that you gave are legitimate. If you are consistently doing that, there is something in you that you have to reflect on. That is not just a lifestyle problem. There are plenty of single moms who raise children who do not expect their parents to do for them for the rest of their lives. I am a professor at a state university. The students that I teach are mostly working full-time. They are Master of Social Work students.

They are doing full-time internships, working full-time, and taking five classes. They come from families that are living intergenerationally. These are not students who are largely privileged at this university. Yet there is a level of respect for boundaries that they extend to me that they would not extend to me if they were not taught those at home.

I absolutely agree with you 100% that because we do not live in silos, we have intergenerational patterns that we come into our relationships with. We come into parenting with those. It is one of the reasons the podcast is called Imperfect Love, because we are so imperfect. I am not a perfect person. I have not met anyone who is. I really try to look at things through that lens of compassion. Knowing that imperfection is there, blaming ourselves for what we did in the past is no use.

Now, looking at the past and reflecting on what went wrong or what we might shift for the better moving forward is gold. That is where to put the energy. How can I shift this moving forward to be a better mother, partner, friend, sister, or father? I like putting the energy there. Sometimes that does mean that we go into the old patterns to see what went awry, no blame, no shame, no judgment, and shift so that we can create that true strength, authenticity, and transparency. It seems to me that this individual had trouble setting boundaries.

What led to those boundary-setting issues, we do not know. She is not here to tell us. There were issues that made her not be firm and clear, regardless of her income. That is life. Everyone has all of these different factors. That is why so many people struggle in relationships, because we are human and we often do not know or use the tools we have to really work on the relationships. Every relationship takes work. It is not just work on one side.

Both people have to really show up. I talk about it a lot in my fourth book, The Joy of Imperfect Love, where we do need to really show up those people. In this case, the mom and the daughter need to show up. The mom cannot do it on her own. The daughter cannot do it on her own. Same in love relationships. Both people have to really want the relationship to work. They have to show up.

What I would love to hear from the mother, again, we cannot go back in our time machine and get this information. What would be helpful is to hear what the daughter explicitly objected to. When the daughter said, “I cannot be in this relationship anymore,” what was the line that came right before that or right after that? “If you keep doing this, I cannot be in the relationship anymore.”

I want to know what happened right before and right after. It cannot just be “I am threatening this relationship because you are saying no.” It is not usable data. She is not giving us usable data. There had to have been something. The fact that she could not land on that makes me think that she is not hearing her child’s legitimacy, the extent to which there may be legitimacy in what the child is asking for.

I hear you. That is why I was trying to go with financial demands, because it is such a common issue now. It is in the news every day in some form or another. If we move to the news in general, you hear people say, “My kid has estranged from me because I will not give them money. They want to receive an advance on their inheritance. If I do not give them an advance, they are going to not talk to me anymore.”

If we keep it with that theme, it does make it easier to parse out how she might move forward. This is a template of some sort of financial demand that the parent does not think is appropriate or fair, or they simply do not want to do it for personal reasons. I remember reading one the other day where somebody’s child had asked them for money to buy a house. The parents had to go into their savings or 401(k), and they just did not want to do that because that is their retirement. The child had said, “If you are not going to do this, you will not see your grandkids and my wife, and I will not talk to you.”

I am looking at those ultimatums as a way for this audience to get some advice on how to move forward. Be able to say to the daughter, using that paradigm you set out, setting the boundary, knowing you can hold it, being empathic, really listening, and validating. It does not mean agree, but validating does not mean agreeing.

Validating is saying, “I hear you, I get that this is what you would like.” Really detach. Do not get involved. That is where the real strength and courage come in, being able to hold firm to that so that the child, if they really want to participate in the relationship, can forge a new, healthier way forward, and then they can co-create a new, healthier relationship with that parent. That waiting can be really tough.

The Difference Between a Boundary and an Ultimatum

It can be brutal. Also, there is such a difference between a boundary and an ultimatum. An ultimatum is a demand. A boundary is a stop. It’s not a request, it’s a stop. It is a signal. This is where it begins. An ultimatum is a demand. It’s a demand for a want. I do not see how you can be in a relationship with someone when there is an ultimatum involved. I instinctively would respond to an ultimatum with a hard no, even if it was reasonable, because I do not like feeling emotionally blackmailed. I like to have choices in life. I like to come to yes of my own volition. I do not know if that helps clarify my position on this.

That is really beautifully said. There is that part where being able to say yes of your own volition, not being pressured to give a hundred dollars or to give anything, but being able to say, “Yes, I would really like to do that for you. I have thought about it. I have looked at my budget. It is something I can do.” Also in the same way, being able to say, “No, that does not really work for me.”

Having the other person accept that graciously and say, “I get that, it makes me sad, I am going to have to figure out another plan, but I understand, and I hear what you are saying.” That is healthy communication. That is the place where you are talking about the discomfort of relationships. That’s exactly what happens to me in my relationships with people. Even if “You have been a clinical psychologist for so long,” I still feel that discomfort because part of me wants to just say yes to everything.

Even in session with your clients, the pull to keep your client comfortable is enormous. We are hardwired to keep people in our lives happy and comfortable. When you find yourself in the rare position where being in service of others is actually to tell the truth, not to keep the person comfortable, there is such a conflict internally. I completely understand and identify with that. I am in a perpetual crunch clinically. I am very uncomfortable in the abdomen because I am saying things that I intrinsically am uncomfortable saying, but it is not about my comfort in that moment. I am servicing a client.

Bracketing the personal feelings and personal experience and taking it back into, definitely with clients, being able to show up and be authentic, real, and genuine is important. Sometimes it does not take a lot of energy because you are really in that space, but other times it is like, “This is going to be hard.” You push through. It is the same with this mom and this daughter. Those moments, and I can feel it when something is coming up in my personal life, and I am saying to someone, “It would be so much easier on me, truly just to say yes and give in, but that is not the right thing to do. The right thing to do is for me to be authentic to myself.”

That is how I can walk my talk and live the life I do. For someone who says, “I do not like discomfort,” I do not think any of us really like it, but it is a necessary part of healthy relationships. Otherwise, we are either always giving in or we are always getting our way. It tends to be that dichotomy. Whereas that middle ground of learning to be flexible, listening, and cooperating to reach a common ground takes work. That is the essence of healthy, imperfect relationships. We just have to work at them.

The Relationship Must Be the Top Priority

I like to think of relationships and this particular decision tree moment as like a pyramid. If you imagine a pyramid, the top point is labeled the relationship. Each of the bottom corners is one person. One is you, one is the other person. The priority in a relationship must be the health of the relationship. It cannot be either person’s needs at the expense of the relationship. For me, that helps get me to the right answer in life because there are moments in my personal life constantly where what I want to do is just get out of discomfort right now, but that is not going to serve the relationship.

I love your pyramid. I talk about it similarly. I talk about the third. We have person one, person two, and then we have the third, and the third is that beautiful relationship. If we are of the mind to really love and cherish our relationships, that is the goal. Finding that place that makes both people, it is not about win-lose or right-wrong. It is about what we can do to compromise to create this place that feels not perfect to each person, but okay, sometimes good. Sometimes, just that massaging from one side to the other, the discussion, and the back and forth, that alone can create a great connection and trust.

Intimacy is the goal. You have to do that. If you are afraid to do that, you are not getting the intimacy that you deserve in the relationship. People who are afraid to negotiate bypass intimacy. They bypass depth in the relationship. They bypass all the good stuff because they are afraid of the bad stuff.

The Difference Between Business and Home Negotiation

One last piece before we wind up. There may be some business people listening who say, “I am a great negotiator at work. Why am I having problems at home?” Our negotiating skills at work are very different from the ones that we want to be able to use at home because people are not objects and money and things to be bought. It takes an entirely different skill set. It takes being able to attune to the other person and to really work on that core discomfort that often does not arise because business negotiations are often a game. Love, when it is love, does not feel so much like a game unless you are a practiced manipulator.

I would also say that we do not have to sleep with our business partners, but we do have to sleep with our partners. There is a level of detachment that is much easier when we get off a call or when we step out of the office. We do not have the privilege to do that when we are cohabitating with our partner. There is only a certain amount of distance you can get from your partner at home.

It makes setting boundaries and negotiating so much more difficult, but it is absolutely possible. If you are somebody who thrives at that in business, I would argue it is the same muscle. There is a layer of complexity over that that needs to be dismantled and is getting in the way of your ability to do it at home, and also the fact that you have to share a home with this person. It is totally possible.

Aside from romantic relationships and marriages, when you look at why it is harder to negotiate with kids, even if they are outside of the home, it is because we are personally involved. Business is different. We are detached. It is a different layer. I know some business negotiators who can be cruel and manipulative. Those are their skills. Whereas in a home negotiation or a family negotiation, it really takes depth, attunement, and a lot of emotional intelligence, not just business savvy, and different skillsets. In my mind, that’s just a different way of looking at it. Darcy, thank you so much. Before we wrap up, are there any other pieces that you would like to cover?

No, I think that we have covered this very well. Thank you so much for having me.

It has been such a pleasure. Where can our audience find you?

Look up We Need to Talk with Dr. Darcy Sterling wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Excellent, everyone. If you do not have a pen handy or if you are driving, do not worry. With a click, you will be able to find her, access her, and listen to her wonderful work, and so much more. Thank you again, Darcy, for being with us. It has been such a joy and a pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me, Carla. I am very pleased.

To our audiences, as always, thank you from my heart for joining us. It is always my joy, my privilege, and my delight. This is Imperfect Love.  

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About Dr. Darcy Sterling

Dr. Darcy Sterling is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and the star of E! Network’s Famously Single.

Darcy and her wife, Stephanie Sterling, share their New York City practice, Alternatives Counseling, where they specialize in working with high-achieving individuals who want more out of life.

In addition to working with clients individually and with couples, Darcy and Stephanie offer workshops on emotional intelligence, goal achievement, and relationship skills. They are best known for their online course, Relationship Skills Boot Camp, which teaches participants the skills necessary to drastically improve the relationships in their lives.

Dr. Darcy received her Master’s Degree in Social Work from Columbia University in 1996, and her Ph.D. from New York University’s School of Social Work in 2006.

She is the first to admit that she’s not the therapist for everyone and it is her unique personality that has drawn the media to her for years.