If you’re a parent, you might expect yourself to automatically have the right skills and inherent ability to help your child thrive. Yet no matter your child’s age, you’ve likely found that parenting is no easy task. As every child is unique, even the most well-prepared parents often find themselves struggling. If issues such as neurodivergence and trauma enter the picture, things can get even more challenging. And because there’s no single tip that fits all situations, today’s top expert, Dr. Debra Kessler, has an impressive array of research-backed strategies that can help children–and their parents–become more self-aware, resilient, and confident.

Topics discussed include neurodiversity, ADHD, trauma, bullying, IFS, Internal Family Systems, dominant culture, parenting, attunement, healing, school, emotions, emotional intelligence, ruptures, repairs, compassion, confidence, resilience, self-awareness, emotional connection, children, empowerment, and well-being.

Please note that this episode may contain sensitive material; listener discretion is advised.

Emergency Assistance Note: If you or someone you know needs immediate support, please call your emergency services. In the US, 24/7 help is available by calling “911” or “988” (Suicide and Crisis Hotline). Support/informational links are in the show notes.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: No expert in this (or any episode) is offering medical or psychological direction; the content is purely informational in nature. Please consult your physician or healthcare provider before undertaking any new regimen or procedure.

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Books by Dr. Carla Manly:

Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend

Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships and Love Fearlessly

Aging Joyfully: A Woman’s Guide to Optimal Health, Relationships, and Fulfillment for Her 50s and Beyond

The Joy of Imperfect Love: The Art of Creating Healthy, Securely Attached Relationships

Imperfect Love Relationship & Oracle Card Deck by Dr. Carla Manly:

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Connect with Dr. Debra Kessler:

Website: https://drdebrakessler.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.dtkessler/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-kessler-17441012/

Resources: https://drdebrakessler.com/resources

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Parenting with Presence to Connect and Heal!

The Art of Parenting Neurotypical and Neurodivergent Children

If you’re a parent, you might expect yourself to automatically have the right skills and inherent ability to help your child thrive. No matter your child’s age, you’ve likely found that parenting is no easy task. As every child is unique, even the most prepared parents often find themselves struggling. If issues such as neurodivergence enter the picture, things can get even more challenging. Because there’s no single tip that fits all situations, our top expert has an impressive array of strategies. They are research-backed, which can help children and their parents become more self-aware, resilient, and confident.

We’ll focus on this listener’s real-life question. “My nine-year-old is on the autism spectrum. He was bullied at school. He’s struggling now more than ever. The school took it seriously, but my son is fidgety now, almost like he’s ADHD. A friend of mine who is a therapist said it might be trauma from the bullying. I’m confused and would like to know more. Can you talk about this?” With that issue as the focus of this episode, I’m Dr. Carla Marie Manly. This is Imperfect Love.

I am joined by a top-notch guest, Dr. Debra Kessler, who will be sharing her expertise in many realms, including internal family systems and neurodivergence. Welcome to the show, Dr. Kessler. It’s such a joy to have you with us.

Thank you. It’s such a pleasure for me to join you. Thank you for the invitation and the opportunity to join you.

Meet the Expert: Why Being ‘Wired Differently’ Is a Gift

Thank you for being with us. Before we launch into the meat of this episode, could you tell our readers a little bit about what makes you, you?

I have such a passion for these kids who are wired differently. I would say it probably traces back to recognizing there were some things that did not come particularly easily for me. The idea that when you look at people who are real geniuses in their fields, many of them are wired differently, whether they’re artists, scientists, or musicians. Being wired a little differently is not a deficit. It’s a divergence. It adds breath, texture, and often gifts that get overlooked when we struggle to not fit into the norm or the standard expected picture. I work hard for these kids and their families. A lot of it is about building acceptance.

That makes a lot of sense. It sounds as if this topic or this area resonates with you on a deeply personal level. That’s always a beautiful place to start from when it’s meaningful in one’s heart and one’s essence. Thank you for sharing that. Can we start with some terminology, please? We often hear terms or phrases such as, “I’m on the spectrum. I’m neurodivergent. I’m ADHD.” They’re used often with good intent, but they’ve become a bit diluted so that people are throwing around terms or saying, “I’m ADHD,” because they had too many cups of coffee. That day, they’re ADHD. Could you give us some grounding in terminology, please?

There are a lot of terms that tend to get used in the common parlance to talk about variation of neurological function. There are those things that are more in the moment. You’ve had too much coffee. You didn’t sleep very well. Some things are anxiety-provoking or challenging. You might attribute it casually to a diagnostic category, which is unfair to the category itself and to those people who fit into it. You hear people throw around, “They’re schizophrenic.” They don’t quite understand what that means. The idea of neurodivergence is that it is a different wiring pattern.

There’s a variation in how you process, take in, or experience information. That is pervasive. It’s not just something that happens in the moment, although it is quite variable. It lends a lot of complexity even to parents or teachers because a child may look very intense, focused, and engaged at one moment, and at another moment be checked out, disengaged, and fidgety, otherwise. That has to do with their arousal level and their regulation. We want to honor the fact that neurodivergence is more of a profile. It is unique to the individual. It is more foundational than that episode of too much coffee or a poor night’s sleep.

You’re differentiating between something situational, that’s passing, and that is self-induced, in many cases. If somebody takes a stimulant, you’re going to be edgy and fidgety. If you’re not getting good night’s sleep, you might also be edgy and fidgety or sluggish. We’re looking at neurodivergence as somebody who is wired differently. Somebody is wired in a way that in a classwork, business, or romantic situation, it doesn’t present as one might expect a “normal” person to present.

Even the word normal makes me get a little uncomfortable.

The “Square Peg”: Navigating Neurotypical vs. Dominant Culture

That’s why I put it in quotes. Maybe let’s use the term expected. Even that is a bit difficult because we’re setting expectations that everybody should be in this medium range or this middle range. What would you propose?

There is this notion about the dominant culture or the neurotypical. Those tend to be some of the languages that can be used. I saw an amazing meme. I thought this was fantastic. It’s the square peg in the round hole. Trying to force the square peg into the round hole only damages the peg. The problem with the dominant culture is that if you expect the child or the individual who is wired differently to conform, you are causing them to do the work to fit something not natural and quite challenging to them in a way that others aren’t expected to have to adapt, manage, or adjust to. It’s a disproportionate burden. That isn’t to say the dominant culture needs to conform to the individual who’s diverse. It does mean that we need to move much more towards compassionate curiosity.

Those are two of my favorite words: compassionate curiosity, rather than continuing to hammer that square peg into the round hole. If we take a step back, I’m sure we all can think of a situation where somebody in a classroom was learning differently. Maybe they acted out a lot as a way to compensate. Maybe they were the quiet ones who wilted away and didn’t get any attention because they didn’t know how to get their needs met.

Generally, those people in the middle are the ones who are either the shining stars or those who tend to get a lot of attention in a positive way. Often, we find friendship circles in classroom settings and in work environments. If we’re not aware that somebody is neurodivergent, it’s not that they’re necessarily bored, that they have too much caffeine every day, or that they can’t learn. It’s often that they are learning differently.

I remember one time, somebody was trying to teach me something. I kept saying, “If you would draw it for me, that would be so helpful. I do much better when I see a visual.” This person kept telling me, and I’m sure to them, I seemed somewhat stupid, but I knew I did better with visual aids. There was a lack of compassion on the other side of being able to say, “This person knows what they need. They’re telling me what they need. Can I have the compassion to give them what they need?”

It’s this much more so with children because often, they don’t know to say, “I will learn better if you give me something for my hands. I will tactile. I will learn better if you give me a visual aid. I will learn better by doing this.” Could you coach us for those parents out there who might not know what we’re talking about, about these different styles of learning?

There’s so much dimension to deconstruct in that question. One of the foundational pieces is the question of regulation or arousal. Are we in a zone? Are we in that space where we are regulated enough to engage? Are we calm and alert, which is a regulated state, rather than on defense, on guard, because things are threatening and coming at me too much, too fast? My body doesn’t feel well, or things are coming at me in ways that I feel I need to protect myself, or the other side. I am dampening down, shutting out, or checking out, because I am also needing to protect myself.

The notions of some of the behaviors are that they are defending or protecting the individual, but they get seen as disruptive, maladaptive, and problematic kinds of behavior. That flip right there is immense. When you see behavior that seems out of the box, consider it as defensive or protective because the child or the individual is overwhelmed or understimulated. That is a foundational piece. Are they in that alert processing window?

Calm and Alert: Finding the Alert Processing Window for Learning

Many times, they are not.

Just consider ourselves. That coffee you’re talking about is trying to bring somebody into their alert processing window. They are too dampened down. They’re tired. They’re winding down. They want to bring their physiology up. They take coffee. That is an understandable effort to do that. Children are learning about where that arousal state needs to be. It doesn’t come without beginning to notice, name, and find what regulation is for them. That’s one facet.

It is a important foundational facet because kids often don’t have that self-awareness to be able to say, “Right now, I’m not learning well because I didn’t get a good night of sleep, because Mommy and Daddy were arguing and I got scared, because my big brother hit me, because I was bullied in the schoolyard this morning, or because I don’t know why. I am not at the same speed as these other people in my classroom are.” That would still take a lot of awareness to be because we know we’re not at the same speed. Sometimes, we can’t verbalize it, we feel ashamed of it, or we have been shamed by it.

You’re hitting on some key points that can help parents realize this isn’t a one-and-done thing. This is an ongoing attunement to that child’s need. Just like adults’ needs change, kids’ needs are changing at warp speed. It is being able to have that curiosity and compassion. Some parents might think, “I’m too tired. I’m too worn out. I work full-time. I can’t be tuning in to my child every day.” The truth is that if we lean into this habit of being curious and being interested, it can save us a lot of time and energy in the long run. What do you think of that, Dr. Kessler?

I have got to say that kids create a doorway into a better understanding of ourselves because if we haven’t even asked the questions of ourselves, “When am I regulated? How does it feel when I’m dysregulated?”, then it’s hard to bring that question to your child. These kids help us grow. Often, when you’re running that hard and that fast, you’re not paying attention to your own needs. The families that I’ve worked with, the lights that flash on, and the doors that open to their own awareness of their own regulation, allow them to say, “I’m not regulated in the moment.”

They don’t have to say that verbally, but they can recognize that maybe they need to go put cold water on their face. Maybe they need to do some breathing. Maybe they need to step away for a moment, validate, and acknowledge the stress or the overwhelm they’re experiencing in a kind, compassionate way. It is where the internal family systems piece comes in because they bring kindness to themselves. They can create space to be the parent they want to be, to come back to their child and be in a place that’s more receptive and curious.

Healing with IFS: An Introduction to Internal Family Systems

Could you tell us a little bit before we go any deeper, internal family systems, which is a fabulous modality? Some people might not know what we’re talking about. Do you mind giving us an explanation of internal family systems?

Internal family systems is a wonderful body of work that’s brought to us by the work of Richard Schwartz. The general notion of it is that our core being is inevitably good and universally present. What ends up happening is that as we navigate through various episodes in our lives, we learn how to adapt from that younger place. Those strategies become internal parts. They become ways in which we learned to operate and to manage in interaction. Each one of them had its own story, its own function, its own history, and its own set of agendas, all in service to us.

The notion of internal family systems is beginning to create a relationship between yourself, your coreness, with these parts of yourself that have evolved to take care of you or to adapt and function in the world, but aren’t your full self. They have been your allies. Sometimes, they become larger in terms of the space that they take up, and you operate within them because you’ve learned to protect and defend using that strategy. That’s a part that has dominated how you manage because it has been very functional until you get to a point in life where you begin to recognize you might need a relationship with it because it’s no longer serving.

In our clinical practices, you probably see it every day. I see it often, especially if I’m working with a family where you’re dealing with somebody who is 40 years old and another person who is 55 years old or 60 years old. You’re seeing behavior come out that feels very much like a nine-year-old, a twelve-year-old, or a six-year-old. It’s nothing at all to laugh at. These parts are important. They’re there, as you said.

They’re very old. They’re there to protect and defend. They serve their purpose when they arise. They were there for a reason. They’re not consciously created, but they’re old and highly protected. When they’re coming out in adult relationships, they tend to create quite a lot of dysfunction. The work that you’re talking about is about getting to know these parts, recognizing these parts, and helping them know when they’re not needed any longer.

The idea is loving them and letting them step back to be the advisors that they can be. One of the core principles is that there are no bad parts. We need to be able to rise to certain occasions. We need to honor and accept each of them. One of the issues is that we can get into cycles of hating parts of ourselves, and then we begin to spiral.

Back to the compassion piece, it is being able to look at them and say, “I don’t need you right now. You can go and sit in this chair over here. Thank you. You can go sit over here.” It is always being kind to these parts because again, as you’ve said, they arise early as a way to protect. They have served a purpose. Sometimes, they get activated and are not quite so helpful. Yes, no bad parts, just parts that we want to have other parts that are more helpful in that situation, and be able to step forward.

Just as we’re talking about this, that notion we were talking about the parent being able to step away from the child so they can attend to the part of themselves that feels so exhausted and wants to have space, it is being compassionate. “You’re exhausted right now. You’ve worked hard right now. I can honor this desire to check out right now. It makes so much sense.” Moving away from that judgment can open up some space to come back to the child.

We think back about the case that you were talking about, the child who experienced trauma is going to create parts to deal with that trauma as much as they can. “I’m not good. I’m going to learn to hide. I’m going to get fidgety,” whatever it is to try to navigate the overwhelm that was part of that traumatic or painful experience with being the victim or the subject of mockery or bullying at school.

Trauma and Protection: How IFS Explains Fidgeting and Coping

You phrased it so well. Giving a recap of what you said, the parents seeing this child know they were bullied and likely feel somewhat helpless, confused, and scared. Friend says, “It might be trauma.” You’re bringing it back again to the family systems, the parts, and the child. It makes sense. They got very scared, whatever the bullying looked like. The coping strategies, the fidgeting, and whatever it is that they’re doing somehow felt protective. Again, you’re saying, and I want to focus on this for readers, regardless of how old a child is, and we hear it so much, it is being able to put on your oxygen mask before you can put it on your child or anybody else.

This sounds like that’s one of these situations for the mom to be able to engage in some self-care, some self-reflection to see, “What are my needs right now? I, mom, am probably sad and scared and feel a bit powerless here.” I know. As a mom myself, when we’re sending our kids off to school, whether it’s kindergarten, grade school, high school, or college, it’s still that, “I’m not there to protect them anymore. This is scary.” That makes sense for the mom to have some compassionate attention for herself. It’s great that she reached out because that shows her message sounded very compassionate and curious, yet scared.

The other piece that comes to mind, as you’re mentioning that, did the mom get bullied herself in school? Who was there for me? We’re talking probably 30 years ago, when she came home from school, and undoubtedly, somebody was not kind or there was a slight. How did she handle that? What was the part that came up to help her navigate that? Is that coming up in terms of how she’s seeing her child? That is so common. The other thing that’s so interesting is you’re talking about a mom and a son. What I find interesting is dads and sons and mothers and daughters. It can echo much more intensively when it’s a child of the same gender, when they were at that age.

You’re right. It’s interesting. I was working with a case where it was a dad and a child. I imagine the child was nine. You could see the dad joining with the child’s issues. He became very aware that what was coming up with the child was actually stimulating all of this trauma that was unresolved within him. We’re in that place where I’m not necessarily the best resource for that child because whatever’s getting triggered in us needs to have some love, soothing, and calming so that we can see a little more clearly and help a little more clearly.

We then get back to the child’s regulation. We get back to a child who might be wired a little differently than that parent, or similarly. It’s hard to say sometimes, these things can run in families. There is the idea of what the child’s sensory profile was. I already brought up regulation, but what was bullying for this particular child that takes some digging deep to figure out what it was that they experienced?

Were they sights? Were they sounds? Was it something about their ability to motorically move in response? Was it about their interpretation of what was being said to them? We’re moving more into the relevance system. That deconstruction can only be engaged in with a parent who sat back enough to create space for the child to get curious about who they are and how they present in the world, and engage with the world as it presents to them.

That makes perfect sense because you’re slowing it down to look at who this child is. Not that the parents’ experience isn’t important. It is important. If it’s triggering something in the parent where, in school or in their family, they were left out, they were bullied, they felt rejected, or they felt scared, all of those things are very important to attend to. Jumping into where the child is, do not tell the child how they’re feeling, but ask the child, “What was this like for you? Tell me. I’m here to listen. How did your body feel? What was happening for you?” It is not peppering the child with questions.

Seek Professional Support: No Shame in Getting Help with Parenting

Maybe that’s sometimes where a professional can come in and be of support. There’s no shame in that. Parents aren’t trained to be psychologists, nor child psychologists. Your child psychologist is a very specialized type of psychologist. It is not being at all afraid or ashamed to reach out, whether it’s to the school to try and get support, as sometimes, they have great resources, or through individual psychotherapy, so that you can understand. Parenting isn’t easy.

It is being able to do some self-healing so that you can be more present in finding out what the child needs. We all have had things occur in our past that distort our lens. The more we’re aware that that distortion is there, we can’t ever remove it entirely because we’re humans. If we’re aware that it’s there, like, “I was traumatized as well in school, so that might be getting active in me,” then we’re able to be more curious, present, and supportive for that child.

When you say slowing it down, it is artful because often, we don’t have the language until we go on that journey with our child. As you say, many of us didn’t develop a language about how to invite reflective function. When you’re asking a direct verbal cognitive question, it requires a verbal cognitive capacity to reflect. When we have neurodiversity with systems that get overwhelmed and flooded, being able to reflect on a name is a journey together.

On a basic level, readers, there may have been times in your life when you couldn’t even state an emotion that you felt. You were too confused or flooded that saying, “I’m happy or sad,” all that might come out is “Okay,” or “Fine.” These are some pieces that we can likely recognize in ourselves and realize that kids, regardless of their age, can have that same experience. It’s one of the reasons that sometimes, giving a child a crayon or a chance to do an artwork or move, whatever that child wants and needs to do, we’re able to see it better if we give them that space and look for what they’re telling us. I’m thinking of how you said earlier about the fidgeting. That part is fidgeting. Sometimes, the body movements alone are telling a story.

Kids with an ADHD profile under that neurodiversity umbrella get told six million times, “Sit still. Stop fidgeting. Stop doodling. You’re disruptive.” Those shame things, those micro traumas get set in. “I am a bad kid if,” yet they’re struggling to be as adaptive as they can. Their efforts are getting challenged. It’s quite a journey. From an adult perspective, it’s very interesting, and I’m going to use a slight metaphor, when you go thinking about cooking, wine tasting, or anything like that. You have the opportunity to begin to narrate the complexity of maybe three senses: taste, smell, and texture. If you take that and you recognize that a young person has all of that going on and no language, because then you add to it motor and touch, as well as proprioceptive and vestibular, it’s huge.

As adults, we are all imperfect beings. We have to give ourselves grace and compassion and not expect ourselves to know these things because we often aren’t educated in them. If we’re not educated in something, we don’t automatically know it. Some of the education certainly comes from formal education. A lot of it comes from early childhood education within the family system. There is often a lot of education in those systems that is not very helpful, not attuned, not loving, not kind, and not compassionate.

I can certainly speak from personal experience. I didn’t grow up in a family environment where emotional intelligence, attunement, and things like that were modeled, not at all. It was quite the opposite. We have to give ourselves grace as individuals, and then adults, parents, and partners, as we learn these skills, and ideally pass them on in healthy and loving ways. That’s not something to be ashamed of. It’s something to be proud of. Every time I get a listener’s question, I am so delighted because I’m saying to myself, “This is someone open enough. They care enough to reach out and send in a question.” That’s huge.

They are so aware to be able to verbalize it. They are so bold, so confident, and so loving to put it out there. I go back to our children are our best teachers. When we begin to look at them, they help us open doors into the experience of humanity, our humanity, their humanity, and understanding much more about others.

The Loop of Attunement: How Children Help Parents Grow in Awareness

I remember you saying that a little earlier in the episode. I didn’t dive into it. We’ll dive into it now. It is so important when we see that not only are we here to educate, support, love, and care for our children. If we pay attention to them and use their feedback, or even their very presence, as a way to become more attuned to the self and more attuned to the child, it’s this lovely cycle of increased attunement that can certainly help us grow and become more resilient and more confident adults.

Certainly, where it starts is more aware. I’m a big believer that if we are not self-aware, in kind, compassionate, and growth-oriented ways, then our journey is going to be a lot less fruitful than when we learn to use that mindfulness to be aware of how our body is feeling, what our mind is doing, and how we’re using our feelings, thoughts, mindset, energy, and actions that loop. Yes, it makes life a little less snap of the fingers because we’re slowing down, but our responses are generally much more positive in the short-term and long-term.

The thing that comes up for me when you say all of that is this other important word, and that’s presence. When you’re slowing down, you’re actually getting more present. We are often so invested in future tripping. “I’m anxious about. I’m already planning about. I have the grocery list about.” This practice of being fully present is not dismissing those responsibilities, but recognizing when you’re in your head versus when you’re observing the child yourself in the moment.

I love that you highlighted that because I am such a believer in that gift of presence in a world where there’s so much that is going on with people believing that multitasking is great, and that we can talk to somebody while we’re also texting somebody else. We can have a conversation while we’re watching a movie or social media clips, or whatever’s happening. I know that when somebody is tuning into me with focused eyes, with an open heart, I feel very differently than when somebody is giving me a quarter of their time that they’re pretending is full-time.

We can see it in children. When we kneel down and tune into a child, we’re there. We’re present, even if we’re reading a book to them for five minutes. We’re all in. They get those five minutes, and they know we’re all in. If we’re distracted more on the phone while we’re half playing with them, they understand that as well. We expect them to be 100% tuned in when we want something, but they haven’t had that modeled for them. They’ve had these distracted adults who are trying to multitask. It makes sense, doesn’t it?

So many thoughts come to my mind because I’m having this notion. One of the things that I find that I spend a lot of my focus on with families is validation. The core concept gets very misconstrued because validation is not agreeing with. It takes some time because you also have to get out of your own way. You have to validate yourself, “I’m tired. I can see that. That makes so much sense,” to create space to see and validate your child.

This imperfect love, this mismatch piece, can be that, “Why is it bothering you that we’re in a mall that’s loud? I’m not bugged by that.” Your child is overwhelmed by the sounds, the movement of others, and the smells. This is being able to truly validate and say, “It makes sense that you want to leave because you’re letting me know something is too much for you. Thank you for letting me know that.”

Stop Comparing: Freeing Children to Embrace Their Unique Gifts

I love this example because it reminds me of this. Often, I’ll be working with a parent who will have two kids, or sometimes, three. They’re like, “This particular child is not like child A and child B. I don’t know what to do with them because this child’s a self-starter and this one’s a self-starter.” I’m thinking, “They’re all your children, but they are all their own unique beings.” While two of them may seem more similar than the third one, when we stop comparing, it’s such a gift, not only to the self, because then you realize, “I have three individual beings here. They’re all different. They’re all going to have different needs.”

Not only are you tuning into yourself and acknowledging that truth, but then you free those children from that yoke of having to be compared to somebody. We’re able to see that first, second, and third child, see their own unique gifts, help them learn to breathe into their gifts, and see themselves as how important it is. We’re back to where you started. You were talking about so many people who have been incredible gifts to society, or what we would now call neurodivergent. Being neurodivergent, you are inherently not seeing the world the same way as other people. You pause to see the gifts in that. It’s amazing.

The other big thing that I want to highlight is sometimes, we can handicap our children when we try to gild the lily all the time, when we try to help them see that things aren’t as bad as they think. There is validation. Maybe it’s hard. This feels bad. This might be uncomfortable. That’s going to create resilience so that they then know how to deal with things that are uncomfortable or don’t feel good. They have the courage to go out in the world to be their unique selves. That’s an important idea because so often, we want to comfort children. What we end up doing is handicapping them from being able to be okay with their uncomfortable feelings. They are going to have them, especially when they have to navigate in waters that are not directly suited for them.

Resilience: Teaching Kids to Be Okay with Uncomfortable Feelings

I want to highlight that last piece you said about learning to be okay with uncomfortable feelings. That’s a critical point for adults and for the adults who are teaching kids. Even if you don’t have kids of your own, or even if they’re grown, we are modeling for people all the time in situations where we don’t even know we’re modeling. Maybe you’re an aunt. Maybe you’re a teacher. Maybe you’re in the medical field. Maybe you’re out walking, and you have a dog. You’re modeling your behavior with the dog. Whatever it might be, it is being able to realize that no feeling is good or bad inherently.

They are all messengers. They are all valid feelings. Some of them are more uncomfortable. For many women, anger is very uncomfortable. For many men, anger is about the only emotion they are trained to allow themselves to feel. The parents said, “Don’t cry. You’ll be a sissy.” Women are told to be nice, be good, and not be angry. We, as adults, make friends with our emotions, learn to use them, learn to listen, and learn to detangle them because sometimes, something that presents as sad is more anger. Sometimes, something that presents as anger is actually more sadness or disappointment.

It is getting used to this so that we are then able to help our children realize exactly what you’re saying, Dr. Kessler, that it’s okay if they’re sad. It’s okay if they’re angry. It’s how they manage it. We want to teach them healthy ways to manage it, not to punch someone and things like that. They learn that it’s okay to cry when your bike falls. It’s okay to be sad if you got a C on your paper, and you wanted a B or an A. We don’t have to fix because we won’t always be there to fix our kids’ lives.

We’re much better off if we work toward giving them the tools and the skillset to be able to manage things better as they move throughout life. You’ve given us such great information. As we wind up, could you give some final tips? If you were to summarize from a mom or dad in this situation or a similar situation where they’re feeling like, “Something is off here. There’s this new behavior. I can’t quite put the pieces together, but something is off with my kid,” what would you recommend?

Final Tips: Connection, Repair, and the Power of “I’m Here”

My go-to is going to sound very familiar. It is a connection, which means you have to be present. You need to be curious. You need to be open. You need to not jump to conclusions or fix it. It’s that space where you can be with and be okay with being with whatever it is that’s showing up. My kid’s having a fit. I can be with that. You notice my shoulders drop and my voice settles. I can be with this. My kid is crying. I can be with that. I don’t need to fix. Sometimes, we feel pressured to do six million other things at those moments, especially if there are multiple kids and multiple demands.

Sometimes, we need to put a bookmark in things and come back to them. Often, there are fewer things that are absolutely urgent demands, so there are maybe five or ten minutes. I have to tell a little story. My daughter was sixteen. She had learned to drive. She’s a very responsible individual. She backed into a parked car. That was her first and only accident. That child came home, cried and cried, was so disappointed with herself, and didn’t know what to do. I finally had to say to her after a while, “I have to go to work in about half an hour. I’m going to stay with you until then.”

I needed to put a bookmark in it. There are times when you can set limits on things. Things can transition. There is the idea that it doesn’t have to go on forever, and the idea that it can be expressed, it can be held, and it can also be revisited later. If an opportunity was missed, you can go back and repair. There’s no reason you can’t go back a day or two later and say, “You said something important the other day. I think I missed that. I want to come back and say, I’ve been thinking about that.”

Those are good nuggets of truth. When I think about you, your daughter, you having to leave, and that time you sat with her, we forget as parents, as partners, or as friends, back to the idea of the gift of presence, we want to fill that space with doing. We want to fill it with words and want to fill it with fixing. Sometimes, the greatest gift we can give to the self, a child, a significant other, or whoever it is, is sitting there and saying, “I’m here.” Sometimes, to a kid or an adult, “What do you need right now? Do you need to be heard? Do you need help? Do you need to be hugged?” Sometimes, the answer is, “I don’t know.” You say, “It’s okay, then I’ll sit here. I’ll be at the table with you.”

Sometimes, they’ll say, “I don’t want that.” Say, “Okay, I’ll be over here.” The simple acts like that show attunement because we’re not making it about us. We’re making it about, “What do you need?” Sometimes, parents will say to me, “I was quiet. I took them on a drive. I didn’t say anything.” Did you have the music on in the car? “I’m uncomfortable with silence.” Maybe next time, turn off the music because sometimes, kids, partners, or friends in those silences will find that courage or the timing will be right for them to say, “I’m sad.” They’ll start sobbing or whatever it might be. We, as parents and partners, sometimes can do a little better at making space for silence.

As you’re saying that, my last thought is that that is when the part that’s dysregulated can feel the strength and the acceptance of the self that the parent is modeling in that moment. That closes the whole circle that we’ve been addressing. Thank you for bringing that up. I think that is such a great reminder of how the self can show up and be kind to these dysregulated, important, informative, little ones, little parts inside of ourselves that are struggling with the moment.

I love how you brought us full circle because when I do parts work, I always remember if we’re able to see that tiny child, we’re looking at an adult or we’re looking at a ten-year-old, but their two-year-old is active. Instead of saying, “Grow up,” and taking that attitude, we can see it, not necessarily naming it, because that’s usually not helpful to a child. “I see your two-year-old acting out.” That’s not necessarily very helpful. We look and go, “There’s this little part that’s speaking right now.” We allow ourselves that gift of compassionate presence. Dr. Kessler, thank you so much for your wisdom, your positive energy, and all of your kindness. Thank you for joining us. It has been such a delight.

Thank you so much for the opportunity to engage with you on this. As you can tell, I’m so privileged to be involved with, help with, and learn about these individuals and their families. Thank you.

Thank you. Dr. Kessler, where can our readers find you?

I have a website. It’s very straightforward. It’s DrDebraKessler.com. I have an Instagram, so they can find me on that as well. I’ve also listed on my website various resources that I’ve drawn information from. I’m happy to consult, advise, and support families on their journey. Thank you so much for the opportunity to share.

Thank you, Dr. Kessler. In closing, readers, I thank you, as always, for the gift of your presence, your energy, and being on the journey of Imperfect Love. Thanks again, Dr. Kessler. This is Imperfect Love.

Important Links

• Dr. Debra Kessler’s Website
• Dr. Debra Kessler on Instagram
• Resources — Dr. Debra Kessler
• Dr. Debra Kessler on LinkedIn
• NAMI HelpLine
• Mental Health and Relationships – MyHealthfinder
• StopBullying
• Get Help Now | StopBullying
• Dr. Carla Manly’s Website
• Dr. Carla Manly on Instagram
• Dr. Carla Manly on X
• Dr. Carla Manly on Facebook
• Dr. Carla Manly on LinkedIn
• Dr. Carla Manly on YouTube
• Dr. Carla Manly on TikTok

About Dr. Debra Kessler

Dr. Debra Kessler is a licensed clinical psychologist and child neurodiversity specialist with 20+ years’ experience, empowering parents to nurture children into more self-aware, resilient and confident adults. She has worked with all types of families giving them a deeper understanding of their child’s specific differences and challenges. With a background in pediatric nursing and expertise in parent/child dynamics, Dr. Kessler provides families with a holistic growth strategy tailored to their child’s unique profile. The result: Parents can better know their own child and develop the right skillset to help them thrive.

Dr. Kessler earned a B.S.N. in Nursing from Vanderbilt University, followed by a Master’s degree in Pediatrics from UCLA. She holds a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology at the California School of Professional Psychology.